Swabian War was one of the Warfare good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the
good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be
renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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Oh yes, is it? Well, nice to see that the article has been "adopted", but it was written without any knowledge of that project.
Lupo07:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)reply
I'm sorry that all references lead to sources in German language, but I have not found a single useful on-line or paper reference in English. Anyone knows one?
Lupo09:11, 13 May 2005 (UTC)reply
Perhaps try: E. Bonjour, et al. A short history of Switzerland (Oxford, 1952) p.139 ff. and: William E. Rappard, Collective Security in Swiss Experience 1291-1948 (London, 1948) pp. 14, 86-88.
RobLandau (
talk)
11:09, 16 October 2011 (UTC)reply
Peter Scheck is the head of the municipal archive of
Schaffhausen.
Thanks for helping improve my grammar, I really do appreciate it. Just a minor point on "shorter distances" in the lead, which you replaced by "shorter
supply lines". I'm not quite sure that this is true. If it refers to food: both sides got the food for their armies from the areas where these armies were located. If it refers to ammunition etc, I don't know where either armies got that from. If it refers to bring new troops to the front from the hinterland, then it may be true: in the Habsburg/Swabian armies served mercenaries from
Flanders (which Maximilian had brought with him, and which then stayed, so they don't really count), but also troops from e.g.
Nuremberg, which is quite far away. However, I was referring more to the simple fact that the Swiss could march from their main camp at Schwaderloh south of
Constance directly to the southern Grisons, as they controlled the whole territory along the way, whereas Maximilian and his troops had to make a huge detour around Lake Constance, over the
Arlberg into
Tyrol and then into the
Val Venosta to get e.g. from
Constance to the
Val Müstair (and back). These long travel times also contributed to the Swiss victory (-ies), because the Swabian leaders were separated from Maximilian for extended time periods, and it was thus difficult for them to agree on a common battle plan. Is this covered by the term "supply line", too? If not, how could one express this better, but still in a concise way?
Lupo10:16, 13 May 2005 (UTC)reply
You're right, its a bit more complicated that just supply lines, but they are part of the situation. The definition of supply line definition seems to miss the aspect of moving units in and out of a area. The sentence now says Finally, the Swiss had the strategic advantages location and shorter supply lines, which should be ok while I try and find a word that describes the advantage of not having to travel long distances. Excellent article, did you write and translate it?--
nixie10:47, 13 May 2005 (UTC)reply
Thanks! It's not a translation from
de:Schwabenkrieg. It's original English text I wrote a s a summary of the references given. Maybe it reads like a translation in places; if so, that's just my first language showing through :-) (or rather, :-(...)
If someone can come up with a concise way of expressing what I explained above, we could re-add the improved phrase. It isn't essential, though, and the article is just as good without it.
Lupo07:39, 16 May 2005 (UTC)reply
Map needed
This article could use a map similar to the one
here, ideally a relief map of Switzerland and the surrounding area (including rivers and lakes), with the borders of 1499, and the most important places marked. I have neither the necessary skill nor the tools to do that myself. Can someone help me out? Thank you.
Lupo22:10, 18 August 2006 (UTC)reply
... The Swiss involvement ended only with their defeat in the Battle of Marignano in 1515 and a subsequent peace treaty with the French king (1516).
This seems, at least on the surface, wildly incorrect; the Swiss played a very significant role until at least 1525 (e.g. at
Bicocca and
Pavia), and I'm pretty certain (though I'll need to check this) that they continued to participate even past that date (perhaps as late as
1544?). Is this just a mistake, or is there some more subtle point that's being made here?
Kirill Lokshin02:26, 9 September 2006 (UTC)reply
No, it's not an error, but I should probably clarify. The involvement of the
Old Swiss Confederacy, acting in its own interests, was brought to an end by their defeat at Marignano. However,
Swiss mercenaries in the service of various parties and, following that "Eternal Peace" with France in 1516, in particular in the Service of the French king, continued well beyond. I have already an article about the details of the
Swiss conquest of the Ticino in the pipeline. At the German WP, there's already
de:Ennetbirgische Feldzüge, covering that aspect. I'll rephrase the sentence.
Lupo08:28, 9 September 2006 (UTC)reply
I covered practically all major battles on the German Wikipedia now and uploaded some more pictures to the commons. They are all categorized by "Swabian War" now. I cannot translate them because I am busy writing the Swiss history in German. Perhaps somebody else has some free time...?
Sidonius21:27, 9 September 2006 (UTC)reply
I think the atricle is both well written and well source and met GA class standards so I passed it.However, I have one question. Is it possible to add the comanders to the info box. Thanks.
Kyriakos13:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC)reply
I'll see what I can do, but that'll be difficult, because (a) there were several on the Swabian side, and (b) the Swiss basically had different commanders in the various battles; the Swiss had no a unified "high command".
Lupo14:02, 6 June 2007 (UTC)reply
GA Sweeps Review: On Hold
As part of the
WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing
sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the
GA criteria. I'm specifically going over all of the "Conflicts, battles and military exercises" articles. I believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a
Good article. I have reworded several statements in the article myself. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed.
"When he had been banned by Pope Pius XII in a conflict over the nomination of a bishop in Tyrol, the Swiss had annexed the formerly Habsburg territories of the Thurgau, and in 1468, he clashed with the Swiss in the War of Waldshut, which he could end without significant territorial losses only by paying a large ransom, which he financed by pawning territories in the Sundgau and the Alsace to Charles the Bold of Burgundy in 1469." This is one long sentence that should probably be split into two.
"The Duchy of Burgundy was also a French fiefdom and immediately claimed by Charles VIII." Consider rewording this sentence.
Feel free to reword this yourself. The point is that after the death of Charles of Burgundy, the French king Charles VIII claimed the Duchy as his own as an "immediate" fiefdom, i.e., for himself directly, without any intermediate liege lords. See also
imperial immediacy.
Lupo07:44, 29 October 2007 (UTC)reply
In the "The course of the war" section, a large of the information is not sourced. It is usually a best bet to have at least one source per paragraph (this is not required, but is a good way to help source the majority of the information). Add a few more sources and it should be fine. Examples of statements you can source include:
"On January 20, 1499, Habsburg troops occupied the valley and plundered the Benedictine Convent of Saint John at Müstair, but were soon driven back by the forces of the Three Leagues, and an armistice was signed already on February 2 in Glurns (Glorenza), a village in the upper Vinschgau."
"When those engaged in the usual insults on the Swiss, the latter crossed the Rhine and killed the scoffers."
"The Swabians lost more than 1,000 soldiers; 130 from the city of Constance alone"
"He declared an imperial ban over the Swiss Confederacy in an attempt to gain wider support for the operation amongst the German princes by declaring the conflict an "imperial war"."
If these are not addressed within seven days (the main requirement being #3), the article may be delisted. If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at
WP:GAN. I will leave notices on the talk pages of the main contributors to this article along with related WikiProjects to ensure that the above issues are addressed by the appropriate people. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page. Happy editing! --
Nehrams202023:07, 28 October 2007 (UTC)reply
GA Sweeps: Pass
Good work on addressing the above issues, and at this time the article continues to meet the requirements of the
GA criteria. Continue to improve the article, ensuring all new information is properly sourced. If you disagree with this review, you can seek an alternate opinion at
Good article reassessment. I have updated the article history to reflect this review. --
Nehrams202020:22, 31 October 2007 (UTC)reply
I am fulfilling a request to open a GAR for this article. The main issue is verifiability: there are large swathes of uncited text with citation needed flags. (
t ·
c) buidhe06:13, 30 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Strike it down. I would be the person to take up the task of keeping the article a GA, but I'm presently working on other projects. –
Vami♜_IV♠13:20, 5 January 2021 (UTC)reply