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I removed the How-to section by User:216.138.194.68, since it was very long, concerned mostly/only with pipe soldering. If the user wishes to write a how-to (a good thing in itself!), I've suggested (on that user's talk page) that it should be in a Wikipedia:How-to article oa a Wikibook. -- Janke | Talk 10:04, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
When soldering copper, brass, nickel, silver, etc. the solder joint is stronger, not weaker, than the surrounding metal. Also I'm not sure the term wetting applies to how the solder comingles with the metal at the joint. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.169.169.1 ( talk) 01:16, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
We might want to add a note about this: in the UK it tends to be soul-dering, whereas in the US it's sodder-ing, with a silent L. ProhibitOnions (T) 15:27, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
The electronics section seems to be talking about through-hole components. There's nothing wrong with that, but we should point out that that's a (very) old technology....surface mount is completely dominant these days.
-- Surface mount is popular, however electronic technicians will frequently encounter through-hole, as hand soldering is an essential skill in the trade, its highly relevant. 124.149.50.202 ( talk) 11:03, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
I think the melting temp of solder is below 450 F (not C as in the article). Comments?? This would be aout 232 C. Nicolem23 16:10, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
This article talks about solder as a filler, but in silver soldering there is never ANY gap between the two pieces to be joined - in fact any gap between the two will usually mean that the join will not be very good. I was once told that if I could see light through the gap between the two pieces, then the join was not tight enough.
Another issue is the silver content of silver solder. This article lists the silver content cutoff point at 40%, but I know for a fact that you can get it up to 76% silver content, and sometimes higher for specialist applications such as jewelery (I've known some jewelers to use pure silver as if it were solder, but that's a different kettle of fish).
Just wanted to know what people's views were on this. ▫Bad▫harlick♠ 00:12, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
It would be good to add something about "no clean" fluxes. With their wire use it seems appropriate to have information about them here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Schneimn ( talk • contribs) 20:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC).
"a very mild 'no-clean' flux might be perfectly acceptable for production equipment, but not give adequate performance for a poorly-controlled hand-soldering operation."
rosin cored solder usually ued for electronics hand soldering is no-clean, yet is not a problem for hand soldering, even of old parts. It is perhaps inaccurate to describe no-clean as very mild - although certainly far milder than killed spirits. Tabby ( talk) 03:56, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
I've read that a large percentage of manufacturers clean "no-clean" fluxes as well as RMA and RA types, mostly to avoid changes in their processes. The R, RMA and RA classifications, as well as the new style (ROL0, ROL1, REM1, etc) provide broad category descriptions for different types of fluxes, but there's a lot of variation between manufacturers, so I don't think you can extract a general cleaning rule from these. For what it's worth, the IPC (general industry and military standard) J-STD-001 Handbook says that ROM1 fluxes (Kester RA "44") do not need to be cleaned for class 1 electronics: consumer electronics that will not cause major loss of money or life if they fail. I think "no-clean" is more of an advertisement than a rule about whether cleaning is truly necessary. In general, you want a flux that is active but won't corrode, and although these two attributes compete, Kester seems to be claiming their "44" flux has achieved both. I sell solder and flux to hobbyists, and spent a lot of time trying to decide what a safe flux would be for non-production projects, and also whether cleaning is necessary. I'd love it if someone could tell me otherwise, but for now my conclusion is that the use of most activated fluxes (at least Kester's RMA and RA)--even without cleaning--will likely not lead to corrosion in non-extreme environments. Manufacturers, of course, are making hundreds of thousands of devices that may need to survive 100 degree F temperature over 10 years in high humidity, and for them to have a very low defect rate, no-clean flux may be the only option. CuriousInventor ( talk) 13:41, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
WP:NOT says under Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information that Wikipedia is not an instruction manual. A tutorial on how to make a soldered connection is part of a Wikibook, not the Wikipedia. An encyclopediac article must avoid second-person address and should not have the flavor of a how-to guide. -- Wtshymanski 17:46, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
how-to sections are generally easily converted to encyclopaedic style content by rephrasing them.
Tabby (
talk)
11:21, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Another option is to create a wikihow article on www.wikihow.com - it could be even more detailed that way and focus on the how-to aspect. Userafw ( talk) 18:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Has anyone noticed that the section on stained glass soldering has absolutely nothing to do with stained glass? 75.5.180.33 14:40, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
A fair bit of beginner speak exists in this section.
"A soldering gun at 100 watts output may provide too much heat for printed circuit boards, while a 23 watt iron will not provide enough heat for joining copper roof flashing or large stained-glass lead came."
In fact 100w guns tend to provide to little heat for pcb work, not too much. The reason is time, a gun only on for 20 seconds doesnt develop the heat of an always-on 25w iron. (This is not the only problem with these guns.)
"For attachment of electronic components to a PCB, proper selection and use of flux is the best way to ensure that all solder pads and device terminals remain clean and oxide-free"
It doesnt do that though, it only helps avoid oxidation during soldering. It doesnt prevent oxidation during soldering, as anyone with soldering experience can testify, nor does it ensure joints are clean. Anyone who has soldered old component leads can testify to that.
"The devices must be mounted on the circuit board properly."
not at all, I've successfully and reliably soldered a huge number of entirely unrestrained joints. Its whats recommended to beginners because it simplifies the process, but its in no way a requirement.
"To achieve a properly heated joint, the soldering iron and the solder must be applied separately to the surfaces to be joined, rather than the iron being applied directly to the solder."
No, again its just beginners advice. Again I've soldered huge numbers of joints reliably by applying the solder to the iron. One merely has to then complete the joint before the flux ceases being active. Beginners are given this advice because they can tend to take an excessive time to make the joint, a time exceeding the life of the hot flux. However if you want to solder rapidly, or to solder with minimum component heating, applying solder direct to the iron is usually the way to achieve both those things.
consumption and a good chance of a blob of molten solder running off the joint and landing somewhere it shouldn't. A properly tinned bit is important for heat transfer, since a completely dry tip will have a high thermal resistance (air gap) between the soldering bit and the joint - but you can't drown the joint, either. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 17:13, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
"When the surfaces are adequately heated up, the solder will melt and flow into the joint. The solder supply is then removed from the joint, followed by the heat source."
The solder source is normally removed before the joint flows, not after. It is almost impossible to get proper flow while solder is still being applied to the joint, as flow requires a higher temperature than solder melting point. When enoug solder has been applied the iron is usually kept on the joint a little longer to achieve full wetting & flow.
I dont think even distribution of solder throughout the joint is an aim, nor the norm, nor a requirement for a succesful bond. An uneven distribution with a shape I cant think of the name for is in fact the characteristic appearance of a good through-hole pcb joint.
"Excess solder and unconsumed flux and residues must be wiped from the soldering iron tip between joints"
beginner-speak.
"but the tip of the iron must be kept wetted with solder ("tinned") constantly when hot to prevent oxidation and corrosion of the tip itself."
mostly, yes, but constantly, no. When reprofiling a tip it is normal to heat it up as bare copper, and apply solder only once hot.
Cue controversy now... many seem to think that the popularity of coated tips somehow prohibits the use of uncoated copper tips.
And keeping the tip wetted does not prevent corrosion - this is precisely why coated tips are so popular. Tabby ( talk) 11:33, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
"applying solder direct to the iron is usually the way to achieve both those things."
This method can yield soldered pcb joints in about 2 seconds each. Solder on the iron first means greater area of thermal contact to the joint for quicker heating, and as long as the joint is done within a few seconds there is no problem caused. This is pretty standard where high speed hand assembly is used. A high power iron is needed, either thermostatic or one with power boost. Tabby ( talk) 03:49, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
I also have a big problem with this sentence as it depends on the type and brand of soldering iron used. "A 100 watt soldering iron may provide too much heat for printed circuit boards, while a 25 watt iron will not provide enough heat for large electrical connectors" It seems he is talking about the old soldering irons that had the premise that more power was better. Modern soldering irons mainly used in the electronics assembly and rework today have a cartridge configuration. The cartridge is composed of a hollow tube with wires inside that in the most advanced systems have a power (24V), ground and sensor cables connected to the very end of the tip where a heating element or resistance is. The resistance then transfers power to the copper (Cu) tip, which in turn melts the solder while transferring energy or heat to the joint or application worked on. While power is important, so is thermal transfer, tip mass and thermal recovery. There are microprocessor controlled 20W irons that will outperform a 70w iron as they have a low mass/power ratio, and great thermal recovery to maintain the temperature and be able to provide continuous stable power. See short video link. http://www.jbctools.com/KB/videosKB/2210penny.wmv —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.8.208.229 ( talk) 01:03, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
The video link above of soldering a heavily oxidized penny shows inclusions and no whetting of the solder, so it is worth noting this must be a how not to demonstration or an example of what heavy oxidation does to the process. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.249.62.137 ( talk) 04:11, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
“Hand-soldering techniques require a great deal of skill for the as fine-pitch soldering of surface moutn chip packages.”
What does this mean? I don’t know enough about soldering to suggest an appropriate correction, but there is clearly something wrong with this sentence.-- Observer6 ( talk) 15:00, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
I am certainly in a conflict-of-interest situation, so I would like others to judge the value of the content available at this link:
Video and Joint Gallery A 7 minute overview video, large gallery of good and bad joints, and list of references to other guides.
The site is commercial, but this page is mostly encyclopedic in nature with an attempt to provide references for almost all claims. CuriousInventor ( talk) 14:00, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Please define "joint". Thank you. -- 64.149.33.236 ( talk) 07:02, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Please don't put that nonsense about minerals coating the lead making it safe back in. It's an urban legend and one which contributes to the misuse of lead based solders on potable systems. Yes, this does happen which is why lots of people still have lead in their supply without suffering ill effects, but it doesn't always work that way and that's why lead is banned. Water companies can change the composition of the water at will, without notification which they are perfectly entitled to do and in practice, actually do, do which will disturb the coatings and put lead back in the supply. It also does not always occur, sometimes the coating doesn't happen due to the water composition and then you get people with lead poisoning. If it was safe then lead would not be banned. 82.132.139.212 ( talk) 11:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
To the Softsoldering the temperature is under 450ºC, hardsoldering 450ºC to 900ºC, high temperature soldering more than 900ºC.
To the European International Welding Engineers in Germany at least. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.226.117.77 ( talk) 10:04, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Someone should add a bit on tinning and how to remove oxides off the tip 'WITHOUT' sanding which destroys the plating.-- Ericg33 ( talk) 03:57, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
I have heard this is possible because tin erodes chrome and iron. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericg33 ( talk • contribs) 07:32, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
Unplated tips are basically bare oxygen free copper that gets heat. The problem is that copper oxidizes with the oxygen in the air and if put at a higher temperature, the oxidation will happen very rapidly. To complicate matters further, Tin dissolves copper and the higher the temperature, the faster the dissolution rate will be. These are the kind of tips where you hear people using sandpaper or a file to sharpen and clean.
Plated tips have a copper core that is protected by a thin (from 70 up to 300 microns) layer of iron that protects the copper from the air and tin. While the iron reduces the thermal effectiveness of the solder tip it also extends its life as tin takes much longer to dissolve the iron layer. However, the main factor that destroys a tip is mechanical wear. The friction to run the tip up and down the pad or touching the component will eventually create cracks and spots where the tin will enter into direct contact with the copper, and that will eventually create a hole, just like a cavity that will get larger until the tip breaks down. Therefore keeping this sort of tips tinned, will extend their life considerably, anywhere from 10% to 50%.
Your mention of chrome is incorrect. Chrome actually repels tin and does not allow it to bond to its surface. That is why is generally plated on areas where one does not want solder to stay (ie: the upper part of the tip).-- Aisart ( talk) 23:00, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Diff I have put the page back to its state before Ebnpebnp made major changes. A quick look at the first reference did not show support for the statement that "Soldering appears to be a hot glue process, but it differs from gluing in that the filler metals alloy with the workpiece at the junction to form a gas- and liquid-tight bond."
In particular, I found no mention of "hot glue" in the reference, nor any mention of the filler metal forming an alloy with the surface material of the workpiece. It is possible that I missed that, so pointing it out will be appreciated. __ Just plain Bill ( talk) 20:14, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
There were multiple errors in the article which I corrected and gave references, yet two different editors rejected my changes. If my revisions were factually incorrect, that would be reasonable, but the rejection seemed to be arbitrary (and I'm not even sure if the editors know anything about soldering vs brazing). I have to say this is a really negative initial experience - all I'm trying to do is improve wikipedia and the changes are rejected. It would seem that the burden of proof would be on the editors to show that my changes were incorrect. Please explain how I can get these changes accepted.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ebnpebnp ( talk • contribs) 21:22, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
The AWS is the final standards authority about soldering, brazing, and welding - somewhat akin to ANSI. They are the organization that names the various brazing alloys (e.g. BAg-5) and they also define the different methods of welding. There's a wiki article about the AWS. As far as I know, the AWS standards apply worldwide, but if there's a corresponding British organization, their standards should be reviewed also. Although I mentioned "Machinery's Handbook" as a reference, the AWS is the final authority.
The revisions I proposed are mostly correcting factual errors (e.g. brazing is NOT limited to brass filler metals - geez, that's stupid), although I removed some additional material that was duplicated. Also, note that there is some discussion about silver soldering vs silver brazing and that paragraph concluded that "silver brazing" is the correct term.
I really don't understand why its so difficult to make changes that are substantiated by multiple references. How else are improvements going to happen to wikipedia ? Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ebnpebnp ( talk • contribs) 23:40, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
The AWS standards are used by all companies in the US, are used in Machinery's Handbook, most companies selling brazing products, and every soldering text that I've looked at. If not the AWS, who? I clearly said in my previous comment that there may be a corresponding British organization, although a cursory search didn't find one. I did find a standard EN 1044:1999 for brazing filler metals, apparently a EU standard. But the point is about the definition of brazing vs soldering, whether brazing is limited to brass, and the term "silver soldering" I point you to http://www.jm-metaljoining.com/technical-pages.asp?parentid=1§ionid=1 (a british company). After you read this, please let me revise the article to correct the mistakes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ebnpebnp ( talk • contribs) 03:04, 27 October 2011 (UTC) Addendum - I just noticed the comment from JustPlainBill about "hot glue" This was in the original article so I didn't change anything. It seems unimportant and I'd favor deletion, but that wasn't the main purpose of my revisions. To summarize:
Exactly what is necessary to get approval to correct these errors - an outside expert? more documentation? Like I say, I'm new here and don't understand why it is so difficult to correct an error. If I'm in error, please let me know (although I'm quite sure of my facts). 64.206.251.206 ( talk) 04:23, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
My concerns go much deeper than that - there are major errors in classification between soldering and brazing. Remember, there's already a wiki article on brazing. Soldering and brazing are two similar but distinct processes that differentiated by the melting point of the filler metal. I'm not making this up - its part of the AWS standards, and as far as I can tell, its part of the EU and british standards also. Here are my specific recommendations: In the 2nd paragraph, it says there's 3 types of soldering. NOT TRUE - there's only soldering. Brazing is separate, although brazing using a high-silver filler metal is often but erroneously called "silver soldering" Also, brazing uses many types of filler metal, not just silver. SO my revision is:
Soldering or "soft soldering" is characterized by having a melting point of the filler metal below 842°F/450°C, and most often consist of alloys of tin, lead, and other metals. Brazing (often called hard soldering or silver soldering) use higher temperatures, typically requiring a flame or furnace to achieve the melting of the filler. Some solders contain small percentages of silver and are called "silver solders", but these must be distinguished from true brazing alloys.
In the "Applications" paragraph, there are several references to silver soldering. These should be moved to the brazing article. Also the comments about the "bright light" produced by brazing is almost comical - there's a faint orange glow when brazing, hardly a "bright light" this should be deleted.
In the "Processes" section, paragraph that starts with "The distinction. . ." needs major revision. In the US and as far as I know the EU, the difference is the melting point of the filler metal. The paragraph that starts with "hard soldering" should be moved to the brazing article The paragraph that starts with "induction soldering" still references brazing. move or delete
The entire article needs a major revision, but I don't have the time do it so I was just trying to correct factual errors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.206.251.206 ( talk) 00:55, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi again, I'm ready to apply edits, but I don't want to just have them reverted again, so could I get some guidance on what will be accepted and what won't. Or I could submit a draft somewhere and work with someone until its acceptable. Please advise on how to proceed. Thanks, Ebnpebnp ( talk) 05:15, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
The section on lead free soldering says that it is a 'common misconception' that lead soldering requires more heat than leaded. I can't find anything in the cited reference to support this, and as someone who works in the industry I can say that we certainly use higher temperatures in the non-leaded process. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.241.230.158 ( talk) 10:45, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Reballing. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 10#Reballing until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. pandakekok9 ( talk) Junk the Philippine anti-terror law! 08:37, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
I pulled out most of the application-specific material out of the old “Processes” section, and renamed it “Soldering vs. Brazing”, since the remaining material in that section is concerned mostly with that. The section still remains a bit of a mess, unfortunately. My interest is mainly with electronics soldering, and I’m not knowledgeable enough to compare and contrast soldering across diverse applications. I also renamed “Tools” to “Heating methods”. I feel that, aside from the heating methods, tools are (mostly) specific to the application and process, and does not benefit from consolidation in a single section. Material on application- and process-specific tools were moved to their respective sections. DriveByWriter ( talk) 19:02, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
Please provide some information about soldering materials. 2409:4063:211E:50BB:B382:CFB1:BC02:4504 ( talk) 14:41, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
Hans-Joachim Peter: Handbook of Inductive Soldering, Hans-Joachim Peter Verlag Berlin, 2017, ISBN 978-3-00-064582-2 (www.induktionsloeten-peter.de/en) Hansjoa ( talk) 15:15, 14 January 2023 (UTC)