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If you read the whole thing [1] you will arrive at the following:
If you still think that it is legit and NPOV to introduce the quotation then also please add mine so the article reads thus,
-- LexCorp 20:03, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I DON'T agree that this is a NPOV. It clearly objects to a well recognised and stablished method and DOES NOT provide any supporting evidence for his claims. Therefore it has to be considered a point of view and NOT a fact. Following the guidelines of the Wikipedia, I'm removing the quote. Askewmind 00:13, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)
Doesn't belong. The very same quote was recently added to scientific consensus by user: Ungtss - a creationist chap who has a definite anti-science bias. The Crichton stuff has been extensively discussed there. Part of my comment from that talk: The Crichton quote is a bit much (seems to be everyone's favorite around here :-) - yes he is a good writer of fiction and yes, he did give a speech with a doozey of a title, but his credentials in science are nowhere near to the proportion of fame he has both here and in the real world. So ... find more real scientist criticisms. As Crichton states and as is noted in consensus science: consensus science is not science. It is basically a hi-jacking of science for political or activist purposes. Let's discuss what the scientific community is - not what it is not. And definitely not what anti-science POV types want to falsely portray it as. - Vsmith 02:17, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Hi there. Over at places like intelligent design we occasionally get into mini-revert wars where a statement like "... is judged as pseudoscience by the scientific community" is altered to "... is judged as pseudoscience by most of the scientific community" (emphasis added). My reading of "scientific community" is that it's not necessarily 100% of scientists out there, but is probably > 90%. I don't think the latter edit of the statement is a useful characterisation of what the "scientific community" is (not least because "most" is a bit of a weasle word).
I notice that there's nothing in the article at the moment which might expand on this point (or something like it). Possibly because it's not worth making. Anyway, before I make any edits, I thought I'd canvas for views (both on the item I raise and whether it's worth including in the first place). Ideally, I'd like the scientific community page to make it clear what statements like "the scientific community says ..." mean.
Cheers, -- Plumbago 09:32, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
P.S. One of these revert wars is currently taking place at Michael Behe.
Intelligent design is not pseudoscience, it is meta-science, that is: "beyond science". And most scientists being dedicated to the cause of materialism will never accept intelligent design, that is but natural. Polytope4D ( talk) 07:33, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
Self-taught scientist have historically been at odds with the scientific community (such as Oliver Heaviside). J. D. Redding
Home scientists are at odds with University schooled & employed scientists BECAUSE; They DO NOT have a clear means of communication between them. A place where- funded scientists & home scientists alike can share and argue theory and hypothesis. EX: Home scientists are consistent in having- MORE QUESTIONS. (This is a fairly easy theory to disprove?)
Yodahungry (
talk)
14:45, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
I cut the pseudoscience para. PS isn't much of a concern for the scientific community. For most sci disciplines the question doesn't arise at all. It doesn't deserve this much space in the article, and probably doesn't deserve mention at all. Its also wrong: the overwhelming determiner of science is publication in reputable journals. For ref, the paras are:
William M. Connolley 18:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC).
I'll stop editing this as WMC has removed meaningful content ... (again as in other articles). J. D. Redding
Erm, what on Earth is this paragraph about? Sounds like someone's just puffing up the reputation of some arbitrary study (which, by the way, isn't by Briggs & Souza; it's by Snyder and Briggs; or perhaps "de Souza Briggs"). Having had a glance at this, it's not obviously focused on science, and I can find only a single cite for it in the Web of Science (and that might be incorrect). Anyway, can someone please explain why this work is important before I hack the whole section out? Among other things, it reads suspiciously like OR. -- Plumbago 13:58, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Dear Plumbago,
Thanks for reading the scientific CoP entry in the Wikipedia scientific community section. Thanks for catching the mis-attribution of the Snyder & de Souza Briggs citation: That correction has been effected.
Thanks also for inviting a collegial dialogue on the merits of this material, especially with regard to its potential OR content.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no original research (OR) dimensions in the scientific CoPs contribution, other than the synthesis of sometimes poorly-connected references in the literature on the topic.
For example, the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH) has recently acknowledged the validity of the scientific communities of practice approach in measuring the net 'value' of NIH-sponsored scientific research discoveries -- through the launching of the new NIH Office of Behavioral & Social Science Research initiative (please see the NIH "Healthier Lives Through Behavioral & Social Sciences Research" Report for an example of their thinking in this regard{ [5] } ).
Many credible elements of the American academic scientific community are also insisting upon an early educational exposure of students to basic scientific communities of practice principles. Examples of ongoing research in this promising area of early childhood education in scientific CoP principles include Northwestern University’s “Bootstrapping a Community of Practice: Learning Science by Doing Projects in a High School Classroom Program” [6].
In addition, the U.S. National Academy of Sciences has recently become even more strident in this regard, insisting that the scientific community must actively pursue the creation of more-useful communities of practice in science & technology on a global scale [7]: This new scientific CoP focus by the National Academy of Science falls under its high-priority Science & Technology for Sustainability (STS) Program [8].
I have added these details to the referenced citation, to lessen the chance that other readers might gain the same mis-impression that you did.
I hope that these improvements are satisfactory to you. If you have any further concerns, or if you want to see additional citations of scientific communities of practice references at the ‘Scientific community’ location, please feel free to let me know.
Sincerely, Stevenson-Perez 20:33, 14 March 2007 (UTC)stevenson-perez Stevenson-Perez 20:33, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Should evolution be publicly described as a "Scientific Law" or a "Scientific Theory"? I think that both are accurate, but "Scientific Law" would be understood by the general population as a way of communicating what is actually meant by the level of confidence that the current scientific understanding of Evolution is. This is based on an article I read in wired magazine. The link is as follows: http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/15-11/st_thompson - Alex.rosenheim 15:43, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Basically one can prove that a theory is valid if one can account for it using the Laws of Thermodynamics (all energy, matter and entropy is accounted for). All sciences become "pure science" as they have mathematical proofs. Thus Physics is a purer science than Biology. The Purest science of all is Mathematics. In the material universe (the subject matter of science) all is goverened by the first, second and third laws of Thermodynamics which is used to account for everything in physical reality: Matter and energy is neither created nor distroyed and the natural flow of order is from high to low (Entropy). The Laws are what we know to be true. They are what MUST be used in science to be sure we're doing "Science" and not theorizing or hypothesisizing. The laws are integral to proving anything is a physical reality. Thus the theory of evolution cannot not be used to prove anything. It is a theory. As most of Biology, including the Theory of evolution (as it has been applied to just about any field you can imagine) has no mathematical basis yet, these are not considered pure sciences. As a study such as Biology has more and more mathematical basis it becomes a purer science. If one were to use Theory to validate theory, well... we're just creating myths.
Darwinzadunce ( talk) 02:29, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I agree with you. There should be a definition for the word 'science'. The word science should have to do something with "knowing things as they are".
Current scientists may be very proud of their knowledge and advancement, but what about the important unanswered questions in life? Origin of life, purpose of life, reason for misery and suffering, and death? can the scientific community answer these questions? Consider the following: (Extracts from a book by an author who was well aware of the scientists' "scientific method")
The living entity is ignorant of his origin. He does not know why this material world was created, why others are working in this material world and what the ultimate source of this manifestation is. No one knows the answers to these questions, and this is called ignorance. By researching into the origin of life, important scientists are finding some chemical compositions or cellular combinations, but actually no one knows the original source of life within this material world. No philosopher, scientist or politician actually knows wherefrom we have come, why we are here struggling so hard for existence and where we will go. Generally people are of the opinion that we are all here accidentally and that as soon as these bodies are finished all our dramatic activities will be finished and we will become zero. Such scientists and philosophers are impersonalists and voidists. There are so many scientists, philosophers and big leaders, but they do not know wherefrom they have come, nor do they know why they are busy within this material world to obtain a position of so-called happiness. In this material world we have many nice facilities for living, but we are so foolish that we do not ask who has made this world habitable for us and has arranged it so nicely. Everything is functioning in order, but people foolishly think that they are produced by chance in this material world and that after death they will become zero. - 59.95.33.112 ( talk) 16:51, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
I think that the word Magisterium would be appropriate when talking about the scientific community, in this article, in other articles and in other writings and publications, because of the consensus approach within scientific circles that often mirrors that of closed communities (cf Consensus Patrum). I think that this was Paul Feyerabend's fundamental epistemological criticism on the pretensions of modern science, namely that of constituting a scientific society by using the same kind of social control tools as that of religion. Feyerabend compares Science to a Church or Community and cynically says that the only reason that there have been conflicts between Church and Science is because both of them are structured like Churches. [2] ADM ( talk) 16:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
And it is. Scientific 'communities' often operate through public funding, depending on the importance of the material researched, and thus have specific political guidelines to abide by or their funding is pulled. This is one of the reasons why independent researchers are so important to the scientific method -- they provide mainstream research with competition from a less politically motivated environment. If there's no checks and balances among the scientific ranks and those outside the mainstream, it would quickly balloon into a scientific totalitarianism with a monopoly on reality by the elite, where any challenges will be shunned as heresy ('pseudoscience') and the challengers as heretics ('pseudoscientist'). Both are modern forms of excommunication. The old clergy wore black robes, the new clergy wears white robes. This was the same criticism of Freud's psychoanalysis concerning fascism -- both share the same premises. Thus, popular science with disregard toward individual researchers, regardless of their findings, inevitably, result in your (and above) cited material. This, I believe, is what Mr. Gould as well as Mr. Crichton were getting at, and rightfully so. Those in the mainstream need to speak out against deception. If something is true, it's true, and needs no consensus. This is good science. If it does (to be true), it's politics. This is bad science. 'Scientific community' appeals for the sake of authority, and not their accumulated evidence, is bad science. It simply does not follow. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.105.184.93 ( talk) 02:33, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
How does today's scientific community using scientific methodology define the following terms? 1) cheater / cheating 2) rogue 3) scoundrel 3) Scientism 4)Consciousness 5)Keeping general populace in darkness and ignorance in the name of scientific methodology 6)Trying to avoid the real questions of life: why are there miseries and suffering?, why is there death?, real purpose of life - 59.95.57.62 ( talk) 16:52, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi everyone,
This article has the following sentence:
I have the following comments/questions:
-- Kevinkor2 ( talk) 22:28, 25 September 2010 (UTC) (: hehe, and why did Wikipedia log me out before I made this comment? :)
Link number 1 may or may not be working. Weknreven i susej eht Talk• Follow 11:31, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
WP:NOTFORUM; No specific change to the article proposed, and no sources provided. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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