![]() | Rufus (Street Fighter) has been listed as one of the Video games good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
I have removed a couple of the extraneous links from this page. A reference article is not meant to be "Everything we can find out about Rufus". It is not enough simply to Google his name every day and indiscriminately list everything that comes up. References should only be used to back up a point that's being made.
Finally, unless Rufus turns out to be from Florda, I won't expect to see any more mention of the Tampa Tribune. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.96 ( talk) 00:42, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
It doesn't really matter if a site is "reliable and verifiable". It shouldn't get added as a reference just for referencing's sake. You need to make or establish notable points, not just provide backup that a certain magazine likes or dislikes a character. If Rufus tops a poll, that might count, but otherwise you're just providing news/publicity updates. See most of Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, especially section 2.9, point 5. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.96 ( talk) 01:10, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm not arguing with the source itself. That would be silly. I'm echoing that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. It doesn't matter that you can find a source to back something up if you are not saying anything worth saying. If you think Rufus is worth having his own article, try providing an insight into his character, or explaining what makes him unique or revolutionary or popular (or unpopular). So far, none of this has been done.
The restaurant stuff, nobody knows what nationwide means. It's either international, or it needs to be explained what nation you're talking about.
Finally, Rufus would probably be summed up by everyone as "a fat character". Surely it would be good to know how fat, by listing his official weight?
Also, please do not remove notability flag without good reason. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.96 ( talk) 01:32, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Why you keep deleting the popcorn stuff? Since he's only been in one game, we have very little to go on about his character, so this is one of the key details revealed in official artwork.
And gameplay wise, the vitality is a key advantage of this character over all the others... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.96 ( talk) 01:36, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I' have taken out the references to the actors again. It's just clutter. Please see Ryu, Guile, Chun-Li or Bison, as well as the 4 non-gaming characters I mentioned before. References would be needed if you were saying something controversial, or something that wasn't easily verified by anyone playing the game. They most definitely are not needed for actors.
"removing the notability tag because I'm contesting the claim"? That's not for you to decide. The point of that tag is that it remains for at least a month, and until a consensus is reached. At the moment this seems to be a one-man article.
Anyway, I'll tell it straight so that you don't waste too much of your time. This is not the place for every quote you can find. IGN saying that he is "a capable fighter" is not worth mentioning, likewise for most of the other quotes. Maybe you could use that reference among a list of 2 or 3 to state that, for example, "overwhelming opinion is that Rufus is the most popular new character" or something (although anecdotaly I'd say that wasn't the case, but it's an example of what you might try to establish). Furthermore, if you want to manage a complete database of all character references and reviews, then that's up to you, but please take it to a fansite hosted elsewhere.
You're making a very big deal out of them being "citable media", when in fact this doesn't matter as long as the points themselves are irrelevant. Wikipedia readers do not need to know whether a certain newspaper likes a character, or whether a website dislikes them. You need to concentrate on making points that are valid and worthwhile. How does he compare to other new and old characters? Does he have any truly unique features or moves? What stereotypes does he reinforce/break? These sorts of questions might add something, but shallow and throwaway one-liners do not.
As for his defence, well that's one of the key elements to his gameplay. I'll dig out a reference if it meant that you wouldn't delete the entry out of revenge 30 seconds after I put it up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.96 ( talk) 17:46, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Look, I just went through 13 other SF characters, and 9 other random characters from games/movies/comics, and do you know how many others saw fit to reference a link that backed up their actor? NONE. It is simply not common practice, no matter what else you may have read. Please quit trying to reintroduce these pointless links. Everybody believes you without a url that says the same thing as can be seen onscreen.
On another issue, related to you revamping the article, I have no objection provided you establish some much needed notability. In particular, you have one week to prove that Rufus is more significant or important than, say, Yun, Hokuto or Alex.
As a pointer, Tiamat's SF canon guide has all of the official backstories translated into English from Capcom Japan at http://www.capcom.co.jp/sf4/cs_stories_index.html . Did you ever take a look at it? Try to pick out one or two of the key story points for inclusion here - I think that would help.
Also, the weight is 185 kg, from a published book, although I think I converted it into lbs before. However, kg seems like the best unit to use, so it's back in.
Instead of trying to revert anything written by somebody else besides you, please be constructive and improve the article by adding material, as I think you are enthusiastic enough to make it happen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.96 ( talk) 22:52, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Yes, notability of the character is one thing. Sure, he gets mentioned all over the place, but then, when you have the most eagerly anticipated game of 2009, and that game is reviewed in every single newspaper in the western world, then sure, the 4 new characters are bound to get namedropped and have a one-line description written about them. But like I've been saying all along, he's irrelevant to the story, has nothing original in the way of gameplay, and hasn't truly captured imaginations in a meaningful way. Only time will tell if he becomes as iconic as Ryu, Guile, Chun-Li, Bison, or even, to pick names at random of people who currently don't warrant their own articles, Karin or Sodom. But right now, numbers of Google results are, for the newbies in the following search terms:
132,000 for "street fighter IV" rufus.
157,000 for "street fighter IV" fuerte.
219,000 for "street fighter IV" viper.
2,120,000 for "street fighter IV" abel.
So he's not being talked about as much as any of the others- make of that what you will. If it's consensus that merely being one of the 25 characters in SFIV is enough to make you notable, then I can't object to that, but otherwise, let's not kid ourselves and make him into something he's not.
Another thing is simply the stuff that is actually being referenced. I don't feel that pointing out that Rufus is arrogant adds anything to the article. The main objection? An encyclopedia article is not meant to be an incoherent list of inane opinion and trivia. There has to be quality control so that it doesn't simply become a collection of "every time his name has appeared in print". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.96 ( talk) 15:08, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Regarding the most recent reversal by Kung Fu Man, who doesn't seem to understand that wikipedia is a community effort where consensus rules, my points are as follows: I improved the original version of the article, which said "arcade versions of Street Fighter IV", which is not correct. As of right now, and unlike SF2, SFEX and SF Alpha, there has been no patch, update or sequel to SFIV, and so there is just one arcade version. I can't believe anybody would argue against this. It's incontestable. Secondly, the original article said "about 6 ½ feet (195 cm) tall", which I improved. Again, the character was invented in Japan for a Japanese game, and so the original units were cm. Furthermore, the article doesn't even make sense to state the original measurement as "about", and then go on to state something more specific as the secondary unit. Feet and inches don't even come into it, and at best are only a conversion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.96 ( talk) 20:32, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, funny that ALL of your counterexamples (Reptile, Poison, Necrid) are articles that you have commandeered and made your own one-man projects. Just bite the bullet and accept you are wrong on this one- the units need to be in cm and kg, as they originate in those units because of the game's production staff being Japanese. This is consistent with all wikipedia policies. I can't believe you're even arguing this- just ignore it and concentrate on expanding the other sections!
Please also explain why you want to be less specific and create confusion as to what game(s) Rufus has appeared in? If he's in SFIV, it's fundamental that we say so, rather than being vague and using the word "series" when it's not needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.96 ( talk) 22:05, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Let's not even get started on this. Most English speakers (as indeed, most people worldwide) use cm. "conventional measurement" is cm. Plus, as stated before, the original source uses cm, so converting just makes it more approximate, as you yourself admit in your edits. Let's not use words like "about" and "over" if we don't have to, as an exact source is available (and is recommended by Wikipedia:Manual of Style). This case is closed.
Also, are you really trying to say that people wouldn't understand that a game called "Street Fighter IV" would inherently be part of a series?! In any case, unlike other characters who have appeared in multiple games in a subseries (and indeed multiple subseries within a main series), Rufus is a character from SFIV. This is the most straightforward way of saying it. He has yet to become a series character in its true sense. We need to be explicit and precise, and not use words that aren't needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.96 ( talk) 22:44, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
^ Thanks for yor input guys, it seems I'm not the only one who's finding the possessive input a bit much. Aside form the fact that (1) Kung Fu Man himself thinks it's not an important issue, and then goes and reverts countless times, but also, my points have been all along that (2) it's no use saying he's "about 6 ½ feet" when we have a much more accurate version available (to the nearest half-inch!), and (3) Wiki style (as linked by KFM before) would favor the original source units (metric in this case).
For the other point, it's obvious that we need to be precise in our language. Saying he's "from the Street Fighter games" is unarguably less precise than saying he's "from the game Street Fighter IV". Am I wrong? All the information is conveyed in the second phrasing, while not leading the unfamiliar into thinking he was in SF1 or SF3 or whatever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.96 ( talk) 20:03, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
My grandmother doesn't understand the concept of a series. However, if I tell her that there's a game called Street Fighter IV, and that he's a character in it, she will get it. As I pointed out before, the term SFIV would be linked in this case as well, so there's no loss of information. It's just more straightforward, you must agree, to include the essential information with nothing else to get in the way. Plus, just in case nobody had noticed, the article is called "Rufus (Street Fighter)"!!
Anyway, getting back to the progress of this article, we are now half way through the week, and although one or two interesting articles have recently been linked, it's still the case that we simply have a growing list of one-line quotes.
My main point, I suppose, is that just because something is true, and just because it has a link to back it up (from a notable source, naturally!), that does not mean that it warrants inclusion in an article like this. It doesn't matter what anyone says, all we have at the moment is an unrelated collection of links pointing out the opinion of critics (mostly written to a tight deadline, after around half a day of playing a pre-release version of the game, and sometimes even by those unfamiliar with videogames in the first place).
It can be taken for granted that Rufus will be mentioned in every review in the game (in fact, I'd pan any review that didn't have a section focusing on the new characters), but do you follow what I'm saying? He gets mentioned in a review. It's true, but Big deal. He gets praised. It's true, but so what? He gets slated. It's true, but who cares? There's a promotional pot noodle named after him. Whoopie. There is much more to it than that. This is an encyclopedia where people are meant to learn about a character. Right now we simply have a couple of interesting lines about his design, then an overly detailed spoiler of his story, followed by the point of view of every newspaper in the world. Then finally, the other 30% of the article is a long list of references backing up that he's a character in a videogame and that reviewers have mentioned him when reviewing the game!!
Besides these facts, even if we do accept Rufus as a significant character, there are 3 other new characters in the game that very clearly deserve their own article ahead of Rufus (ie they are demonstrably more significant from a point of view of promotion, public discussion, backstory, popularity and gameplay). I'd suggest merging this back into the List of SF Characters until the article is improved to such a point. Carry out the work in progress over there, and then split once complete.
In any case, we desperately need some meat to this article. There is no substance. Rigorously-sourced banalities are not enough. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.96 ( talk) 18:33, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Kung Fu Man - yes, it's fairly obvious that Seth is the exception to the rule here. It should not surprise you that players would not be enthusiastic about a character they couldn't play as, and that journalists wouldn't mention a boss character that they are not good enough to play against. My point was that Abel, Gouken and Viper are all provably and indisputably more significant than Rufus in all the five criteria I mentioned before. Anyway, by "I have more content to work in here", am I to assume that you have found a quote from a notable source that has nothing to do with anything, but that you are working on a way to somehow distort the flow and include that quote in the article? If so, I'd remind you that encyclopedia is not meant to be "everything published about Rufus". Show some discretion!
Guyinblack25- that's my point!! I AM trying to make the article more accessible to non-gamers. These people will not get the concept of a series, so we should just name the game. You think I'd go to all this hassle to muddy things? Look up Number theory or Random-access memory or Winston Churchill. All start with a concise first sentence that gets to the point and does not allude to anything unnecessary.
Oh, also, note that I didn't add the blood group (or height), and that vitality statistics are not fictional - they affect gameplay and can make a difference at world-championship-level play (see Zangief's leader for something similar about the most damaging move, and note also that fast and speed are both mentioned here - it's the same thing - a gameplay attribute). Since he's not first or top in any list, isn't second place good enough? As for his weight, look at the picture, it is his one defining characteristic- and surely you can't call him fat without saying how heavy? (Oh, and I notice that the leader makes reference to his appearance, and then frustratingly goes on not to describe it!) Also, the popcorn is about the only detail that recurs (ie it's seen more than the bike, which curiously is mentioned), so I would have thought that was just as significant as describing, for example, his clothing.
Anyway, I note that nobody has contested the "stick to the original source units" guideline, so I'll reprioritize to the 15x more accurate numbers shortly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.96 ( talk) 18:51, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
81.141.22.96- With all due respect, I don't think Kung Fu Man appreciates the tone you've shown in your comments directed at him; I know I don't. I suggest you disengage from the issue for a while if you do not think you can show civility towards a fellow editor.
In regard to your other comments. I do not dispute that you are well-intentioned. Few people would fight for a malicious stance. Rather than argue each others' definitions of accessibility, perhaps taking time to copy edit suggestions would be more productive. Any thoughts, comments, and suggestions to the sentence below are welcome.
As far as including information, I'd argue that a character's exact height and weight are a trivial details. While I concede that gameplay details can be included if their real world relevance is established, without sources or sufficient time to gauge an impact it is mainly hypothetical at this point. If the popcorn is a recurring attribute, then it too could be included. However, the capacity it serves would determine if it is trivial or not, and whether it should be included. Since I'm not knowledgeable about this game, I'll leave those to be sorted out between you, Kung Fu Man, and others familiar with the subject. However, I'd advise that if you want to work with someone, it is best not to continually call their contributes as content "that has nothing to do with anything".
In regard to the "stick to the original source units" discussion, I must admit that I'm not certain what you are talking about, and find searching through this lengthy discussion difficult. If you'd like to discussion it, we can. However, I suggest tackling things in smaller doses, than all at once. ( Guyinblack25 talk 19:38, 25 March 2009 (UTC))
How strange... Only characters created by Kung Fu Man have their own articles at Wikipedia. Don't dare to make changes or anything else, he is the owner of Wikipedia! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.117.55.93 ( talk) 20:16, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
This would be original research I know, purely conjecture here, but after reading the backstory (runs a motorcycle shop, long winded, "hasty personality, prone to jumping to conclusions to achieve a goal" and the moustache) anyone se a connection or is it just me? 198.6.46.11 ( talk) 17:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
The articles looks pretty good. In addition to some copy edits I made, a few minor issues here and there stood out to me.
Once these minor issues are addressed, I'll be happy to support A-class. ( Guyinblack25 talk 16:24, 8 June 2009 (UTC))
They have minor characters from minor vidgames now?! Ryu and Dictator, maybe, but what's this Rufus doing here? You certainly won't find him in any other authoritative site like this! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.84 ( talk) 22:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
> kungfuman must justify his continuous rollbacks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.84 ( talk) 21:53, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
why rufus has his own article and the others doesnt? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.138.88.30 ( talk) 23:00, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
^ Indeed, nobody owns any article, and all rollbacks must be justified.
As for Rufus having has his own article, I think it's dramatic overkill. Let's look at the evidence: he's in the bottom 20% of the most talked about characters on shoryuken.com, the leading English-language SF message board. and also somewhere around the middle of the list of most effective characters according to worldwide SFIV tournaments. And he's 2nd from last in the list of characters with the most fan-modified costumes. And when Seth Killian's blog had a poll on Aug 6, '09 on who should be turned into a figurine, they listed all the SFIV characters except Rufus, showing that Capcom didn't even consider him.
http://blog.capcom.com/archives
All these factors would indicate he's not a good candidate for inclusion in a future game, meaning that his story will likely not continue. So what makes him stand out? Not merely the fact that all 4 new characters got mentioned by reviewers, surely? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.84 ( talk) 18:51, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Sorry if this sounds late, but I too can't understand why Rufus has his own article. The other characters who do are each notable: the Original 12 are considerable the most popular characters of the series, Cammy and Akuma have both had a major role in the Alpha series, Dan is Capcom's parody of SNK's King of Fighters, and Gouken is Capcom's response to EGM's famous "Sheng Long" joke. There has been no proof that Rufus is as notable as these characters, nor does he deserve an article any more than characters like Seth and C. Viper. If possible, I vote this article to be merged back into the List of Street Fighter Characters page. 74.101.104.241 ( talk) 04:54, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
This article has highly controversial relevance. I personally think that this has no value as a separate article of the street fighter one. Wikipedia has totally inconsequential articles to characters for the series and are only here because it happens that you are one of the principal editors in them, therefore, there is a conflict of interest, which violates one of the pillars that is the neutral point of view. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.231.222.176 ( talk) 23:23, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
@190.231.222, Well if we're giving out personal opinions than I here's mine: what you typed there is a load. Just because he's an editor does not mean he can't be a contributor as well. This article doesn't solely exist because of the editor's interest in it. Personally, I came to the article because I wanted to read about Rufus as a character not get some two and a half lines of garbage on an article that is pages upon pages long--having to sift through generations of Street Fighter games just to find the character I'm looking for. I believe that if there is substantial information about a character then they should have their own page (directly tied to the Street Fighter main article(s)). There is no limit to the amount of articles Wikipedia has, there is only a limit on the lack of quality of an article. Since it seems that we are fooling ourselves here and debating relevance instead of sustenance; it should go without saying, this article has a right to exist. CrazedSpartanHadouken ( talk) 17:36, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
How does this meet the notability standards of Wikipedia? It seems the only "notability" of the subject at hand is one editor's obsessive desire to ensure that an INCREDIBLY minor character in the SF series has it's own article. Isn't there a process to repair this, merge or something? SoheiFox ( talk) 22:36, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
It seems the majority discussion has come to the conclusion that Rufus does not meet the notability requirements. It is improper to remove tags suggesting merge when the consensus is that the article should BE merged, and reading over this whole discussion page that seems to have been the result. It is hard to assume good faith when an editor attempts to subvert consensus by removing tags. SoheiFox ( talk) 22:43, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This characters is simply not notable - he has only been in one game (Street Fighter IV), was not a major character in that, and has never been seen in other media. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.70.242.162 ( talk) 17:31, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 9 external links on Rufus (Street Fighter). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:21, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Rufus (Street Fighter). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3165156{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169458{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/mar/09/video-game-review-street-fighter-iv/When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:44, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
Kung Fu Man refuses to listen to sources or any arguments. 173.70.229.137 ( talk) 20:44, 3 April 2023 (UTC)