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It doesn't matter which battles they fought in. Denmark was part of the war on the french side after the British forced our hands, this is pretty common knowledge that every person with common historical knowledge of the period knows. The Danish army and navy were active in the gunboat wars, as well the defense of Norway when the swedes invaded in 1809 and in the War of the Sixth Coalition during the Napoleonic wars. The whole point of listing wars is about what wars they participated in.
wis22:21, 13 March 2011 (UTC)reply
I did the moving. The Danish army does not have the royal prefix. It is only the Danish Airforce and Navy who has the prefix. It is the same as in other European countries with Monarchies. This goes back to the history of the fleet and ships being owned by the King and not the country. The danish army is not a royal army and it is not branded as such in the Denmark either. Individual units in the Danish army was given the prefix Royal, such as the royal foot life guards and the royal horse life guards. No other units were given this prefix and the army as a whole was never given this.
wis22:21, 13 March 2011 (UTC)reply
I believe user:wis is correct. The Danish Army has not a "Royal" prefix in its official name. To my knowledge only the Navy is Royal in Denmark (Kongelige danske marine), but today not even the navy continues to use the Royal prefix: i.e.
Søværnet 9850 hits,
Marinen 61 hits,
"Kongelige danske marine" 5 hits and
"Kongelige marine" also only 5 hits on the homepage of the Danish Military. As for the Army and Air Force they do not have the royal (Kongelige) prefix in Danish. (however the Air Force uses the Royal in English (
a good example). Also Nato only uses Danish Army
[1] and not once uses Royal Danish Army
[2], while using "Royal Netherlands Army". And if I am not mistaken also the Norwegian Army has no Royal prefix anymore, with the exception of the Air Force and this also only in English.
noclador (
talk)
08:47, 14 March 2011 (UTC)reply
I just emailed the Danish Military and asked them to let us know the correct English name for all three branches. When (and if) I get an answer I will post it here. I also sent the mail to the Norwegian Military.
noclador (
talk)
09:16, 14 March 2011 (UTC)reply
Danish is a rather informal language; the services are called Hæren (literally 'the army'),
Søværnet ('the sea guard/defence/..') and
Flyvevåbnet ('the flying force/arm')
Forsvaret in Danish. The prefix 'kongelige' is seldom used in Danish and this discussion is about the English name(s).
The British Army isn't 'Royal Army', on ground of the king's army's defeat in the English civil war. But that doesn't exclude other European countries in having royal armies. Wis (aka 85.235.22.79) excluded all royal armies
[3], even the Italian
Regio Esercito and the
Royal Prussian Army.
Necessary evil can you link to any danish or english research or historical source that says the danish army is royal? The Royal prefix is something given to institutions by the royal family. Also the royal prussian army was the personal army of the Kings in and of Prussia, that is why it was royal. The prefix royal isn't something you can just flaunt about without having it been given you to by the royal family.
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hæren_(Norge)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Armyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_armyhttp://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sveriges_arméhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_army None of these are Royal armies. Also the British army isn't royal. But you have units in the army that have been given the prefix Queen's or King's or Royal. It is something that is earned. Just like with the "Den Kongelige Livgarde til hest og fods", "Dronningens Artilleriregiment". The danish navy is royal because it was the private ownership of the King.
wis16:56, 14 March 2011 (UTC)reply
Why should I bother digging up additional sources indicating that the Danish army is called Royal Danish Army?? If you read my contributions here, you'll find a 'Royal Danish Army' (RDA) link from the official web page, a 'Royal Norwegian Army' link at their official web page etc. Again; "Because the "royal" is omitted from time to time, it doesn't mean that it isn't royal." The number of 'Danish Army' versus 'Royal Danish Army' hits on Google is nothing but a survey in indolence.
It's fine that you finally realize that the Prussian army was royal, instead of deleting it.
Your presentation of Wiki articles as proof is useless, since Wikipedia is a tertiary source. However if you insist in using Wikipedia,
Sveriges armé states "äldre benämning Kungliga armén" ('earlier name royal army'), which contradicts your deletion at da.wiki. Furthermore the Danish air force paints "ROYAL DANISH AIR FORCE" on its planes, but still the Danish wiki article is called
da:Flyvevåbnet and not "Kongelige Danske Flyvevåben". The Danish non-royal name doesn't preclude an English name with 'Royal' in it.
Why do you repeat that the British Army isn't 'Royal Army', we already know that it's a special case.
I am currently serving in the danish army, in all my years i have never seen any danish sources calling the danish army the royal danish army. You say "Why should I bother digging up additional sources indicating that the Danish army is called Royal Danish Army, but you demand we dig up sources? Why is there no mention of "Den kongelige danske hær" under the danish page of the danish army?. That is because you can not find any.
http://www.google.dk/search?hl=en&client=opera&hs=qpX&rls=en&channel=suggest&q=den+kongelige+danske+h%C3%A6r&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq= . There are no danish sources calling the danish army for the royal danish army. Because the danish army as a whole has never been given the honour of adding royal to it. Adding Royal to it is a honour.
wis19:18, 14 March 2011 (UTC)—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
85.235.22.79 (
talk) reply
It's always strange to communicate with a Dane in English, but never mind. As you, I've never heard the Danish army referred to as "den kongelige hær" in Danish, just as I've never heard the Danish air force referred to as "det kongelige flyvevåben" either. Nevertheless the Danish air force has painted "ROYAL DANISH AIR FORCE" on its planes. I doubt that the pilots have done it without the permission from the top. It's a fact that the Danish army, navy and air force aren't using 'kongelig' (royal) in their Danish names, but that doesn't preclude the word 'Royal' in their English names. E.g. the Danish
Kirkeministeriet is called "Ministry for Ecclesiastical Affairs" - and not "Ministry of Church Affairs", so English names of Danish authorities aren't always translated logically.
@Noclador: Sailors got ribbons in their caps bearing the ship's name, and before the Danish junior ratings are attached to a ship, they got "KGL. MARINE" (royal navy/marine) written on the ribbon. --Regards,
Necessary Evil (
talk)23:59, 14 March 2011 (UTC)reply
Guys, stop discussing and lets wait a week to see if the Danish and Norwegian authorities answer. The Norwegians already acknowledged to have gotten my mail and have "forwarded to the department concerned."
noclador (
talk)
00:11, 15 March 2011 (UTC)reply
Norway's answer
FYI: I just got the answer from the Defence Staff Norway:
... what now? the linked pdf. only speaks about the Royal Danish Air Force, but never of the Royal Danish Army or the Royal Danish Navy. Does anyone of you wish to write the Pressofficer and ask him a second time?
noclador (
talk)
14:06, 15 March 2011 (UTC)reply
Well, it’s up-to-date, has 25 pages and is translated from Danish. The translators of the army and navy pages are less successful with "arms and equipment of the the army" and "arms and equipment of the the navy" with double 'the', and "autical miles", while the air force translator got the "arms and equipment of the air force" correct.
The PR-department must be very busy since they gave you that answer - "read our f****** web page!". But there is a 'Royal Danish Army (RDA)' at their web page. Maybe they don't use it everyday, just as the British 'Royal Air Force' is translated to something like britiske luftvåben (British air force) or engelske flyvevåben, and not the literal kongelige luftvåben in Danish. --Regards,
Necessary Evil (
talk)17:51, 15 March 2011 (UTC)reply
yes, I felt the wonderful politeness in the PR-departments answer too... therefore I am not going to write them anymore. If anyone of you wishes to write them, let me know and I will email you the contact details of the Press Officer in charge.
noclador (
talk)
19:27, 15 March 2011 (UTC)reply
Gents, I've just talked to an colleague, who knows a whole lot more about Danish military formations and their names than me. The official Danish names are available on the internet as
Cirkulære om forsvarets inddeling mv. - however it's not quite updated and their English names are not! The Royal prefix was removed from the Army somewhere between 2001 and 2004 (-ish), though certain subordinate units (like the Royal Life Guards and the Royal Danish Army Army Academy - yes there shall be to times 'Army' apparently) have retained the prefix. The English names should be:
Danish Defence
Defence Command Denmark
Danish Army
Army Operational Command
Royal Danish Navy
Admiral Danish Fleet
Royal Danish Air Force
Tactical Air Command
Danish Defence Acquisition and Logistics Organisation
Danish Defence Personnel Agency
Danish Defence Estates & Infrastructure Organisation (until very recently: Defence Construction and Establishment Service)
Danish Defence Health Service
Royal Danish Defence College
Danish Home Guard
Danish Defence Intelligence Service
Military Prosecution Service (may also be referred to as the Judge Advocate General’s Corps in some situations)
Hi Heb, I got a problem in getting the official English names at the "Cirkulære om forsvarets inddeling mv." web page. Where do I click?
It doesn't surprise me if they removed the 'Royal' suffix in 200X, they have always been good at focusing on the important issues like renaming konstabelelev to marineelev, the design of the insignia, supplying desert armies with snow ploughs.. instead of the trivial issues like getting the UAVs and other vehicles to work, exploiting the countertrade deals, etc.
Sorry - I was a bit unclear on that. What I meant was that "Cirkulære om forsvarets inddeling mv." doesn't include an list of official English names. And neither does such a list exist within the Danish Defence. The list I have given is compiled by a person at some point, but is not from an official document, directive or other writing. The removing of the 'Royal' prefix could by the way have happened (though I haven't been able to confirm this from a second source) just prior to the deployment to Afghanistan in 2002 in order to be more aligned with British and German military contributions. --
Heb (
talk)
08:37, 24 May 2011 (UTC)reply
At
forsvaret.dk there are some official English names:
Defence Command Denmark - Forsvarskommandoen.
Army Operational Command - Hærens Operative Kommando
Danish Defence Health Service - Forsvarets Sundhedstjeneste
The reason for removing the 'royal' prefix doesn't make sense; did the Queen forbade any of her Majesty's forces to fight in Afghanistan?? Please elaborate! --Regards,
Necessary Evil (
talk)16:33, 25 May 2011 (UTC)reply
As I've been informed (still haven't had a second confirmation on the exact time and reason) it was a matter of personnel security rather than the Queens will/wishes. --
Heb (
talk)
07:11, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
I don't understand why the MG3 7.62 mm - in Denmark named LMG M/62 - isn't mentioned under "General issued weapons and related equipment". Wouldn't want to mess with the page myself, it just seems odd! — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Hr.thein (
talk •
contribs)
22:22, 5 June 2011 (UTC)reply