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Can whoever wrote the section for ser/estar in Spanish explain why "ser" is always used with "feliz"? I've always wondered about this because they never say "soy triste" but always "soy feliz" ThePedanticPrick 04:20, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
(UTC)
A Creole language has not the same classification has an usual language. You can not say that Haitian is a Romance language!! it isn't, it is a French Creole (stop) It means it uses French words (almost fully) in another context, another grammar (can be simple, can be broken, can be traceable to another language), but not French. - Pedro 21:28, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Antagonizes the "mistake" that estar means "temporary" and ser means "permanant". That portion of the article should be rewritten. Peter O. ( Talk, automation script) 02:14, Dec 26, 2004 (UTC)
The use of ser/estar in Portuguese is generally similar to Spanish, but there are a few differences. For example, one would say in Portuguese: "a cadeira é feita de madeira", whereas in Spanish, I believe one says: "la silla está hecha de madera". I also noticed when traveling by plane that one says in Spanish: "está prohibido fumar en este vuelo", while in Portuguese we say: "é proibido fumar neste vôo". Likewise, we say in Portuguese: "é permitido fumar" and "eu sou casado" (the use of "estar" in those contexts would be considered wrong by a native speaker). The biggest difference though compared to Spanish is perhaps the use of "ficar" (and sometimes "ser") instead of "estar" to indicate location, e.g. "o Teatro São Pedro fica na Rua São Luís"; "Onde é/fica o seu apartamento?"
---
Eu estou verde (I'm green)
Eu sou verde (I'm green)
conclude for yourself. - Pedro 21:40, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
that brings me the idea: if you search the 500 hits, all of them (except those Port. people that use Brazilian sites), are Portuguese. Then you would think that only the Portuguese use "Bué de fixe". In fact, only young Portuguese (urban) use it. While Angolans use it if they are young or old, from the city or from the jungle. A Portuguese elder doesnt even understand it.- Pedro 13:14, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think this...
Imperfect: STABAM, STABAS, STABAT, STABAMVS, STABATIS, STABANT
is fascinating. It didnt change much after 2000 years! O_O. I already knew that latin did had the sound \v\. And I usually use it when people from the south make fun of us, for occasionally use a \b\ instead of \v\. There should be more articles, comparing Latin with Modern Romance Languages. - Pedro 23:49, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Wouldnt be great to put the final part of the article the conjugation in the various languages together with Latin in the top of it? It would give a lot of work...- Pedro 23:18, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Can someone please help me convert all the conjugation tables at the end of the article to proper table format? — Chameleon 13:51, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
Just a pedantic quibble, but in the page as it stands (no pun intended 8>), equivalence is made between the supine of the latin verb sto and the forms status, stata, statum. Strictly speaking, the given paradigm is not of the supine, but forms of the past participle, a verbal adjective derived from it. The supine is of course a principle part identical in form to the last member of the group, functioning as verbal noun statum with statu in the ablative.
Apologies for nit-picky quibbling, but I'm a fan of verbal nouns (and non-finite verbal syntax in general), and just couldn't let it stand (ho-ho).
Thanks for a great article though!
Tintagel :->
Hi,
On the Royal Spanish Academy dictionary website, it says ser came from seer. I also read in A History of the Spanish Language, p.8 that essere is a hypothetical word. [1] So, how would we know it has an accent on the first e? Did Vular Latin even use accent marks? In the history from Cambridge, it spells it using small caps without an accent. I'm all for keeping the material, as the esse part is definitely right. But should we add seer (even though I'm not sure where we would in the timeline)?
Primetime 04:02, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I think this article should give more recognition to the theory that some forms of ser derive from sedere, simply because several scholarly sources make this assertion. Currently the article starts off with the assertion that the modern Romance copula is derived only from esse and stare. The only mention of the sedere theory is
* SEDERE → *seder → seer → ser
I'm pretty sure I recall Jozsef Herman supporting sedere in his Vulgar Latin. It seems to me that Herman and the Royal Spanish Academy (as a start) make the sedere approach notable enough to deserve slightly more prominent coverage here. (A linguist friend suggested to me that esser is the majority scholarly view and sedere is the minority view, but lots of Wikipedia articles discuss minority scholarly views in more detail or more prominently.) I'm not familiar enough with the controversy to have an opinion. Schoen 19:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I miss a slight mention to Latin sum actually mixing itself two earlier verbs, essere and another with the root fu-.
At the start of the conjugation section, it's said that only simple tenses will be listed, as all Romance languages have many compound tenses as well. Yet lower in the page many compound tenses appear. I guess the original spirit of this article has been a little forgotten. I've been working on a more compact version of the conjugation tables which might put the article back on track, but would appreciate some feedback. I know there are probably some mistakes below, but let me know what you think of this format. FilipeS 09:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Indicative Mood | |||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Latin | Italian | French | Spanish | Portuguese | |||||
Present | SVM ES EST SVMVS ESTIS SVNT |
STO STAS STAT STAMVS STATIS STANT |
sono sei è siamo siete sono |
sto stai sta stiamo state stanno |
suis es est sommes êtes sont |
soy eres es somos sois son |
estoy estás está estamos estáis están |
sou és é somos sois são |
estou estás está estamos estais estão |
Perfect (Preterite) | FVI FVISTI FVIT FVIMVS FVISTIS FVERVNT |
STETI STETISTI STETIT STETIMVS STETISTIS STETERVNT |
fui fosti fu fummo foste furono |
stetti stesti stette stemmo steste stettero |
fus fus fut fûmes fûtes furent |
fui fuiste fue fuimos fuisteis fueron |
estuve estuviste estuvo estuvimos estuvisteis estuvieron |
fui foste foi fomos fostes foram |
estive estiveste esteve estivemos estivestes estiveram |
Imperfect | ERAM ERAS ERAT ERAMVS ERATIS ERANT |
STABAM STABAS STABAT STABAMVS STABATIS STABANT |
ero eri era eravamo eravate erano |
stavo stavi stava stavamo stavate stavano |
étais étais était étions étiez étaient |
era eras era éramos erais eran |
estaba estabas estaba estábamos estabais estaban |
era eras era éramos éreis eram |
estava estavas estava estávamos estáveis estavam |
Pluperfect | FVERAM FVERAS FVERAT FVERAMVS FVERATIS FVERANT |
STETERAM STETERAS STETERAT STETERAMVS STETERATIS STETERANT |
- | - | - | fuera fueras fuera fuéramos fuerais fueran |
estuviera estuvieras estuviera estuviéramos estuvierais estuvieran |
fora foras fora fôramos fôreis foram |
estivera estiveras estivare estivéramos estivéreis estiveram |
Future | ERO ERIS ERIT ERIMVS ERITIS ERVNT |
STABO STABIS STABIT STABIMVS STABITIS STABVNT |
sarò sarai sarà saremmo sareste sarebbero |
starò starai starà staremo starete staranno |
serai seras sera serons serez seront |
seré serás será seremos seréis serán |
estaré estarás estará estaremos estaréis estarán |
serei serás será seremos sereis serão |
estarei estarás estará estaremos estareis estarão |
Subjunctive Mood | |||||||||
Latin | Italian | French | Spanish | Portuguese | |||||
Present | SIM SIS SIT SIMVS SITIS SINT |
STEM STES STET STEMVS STETIS STENT |
sia sia sia siamo siate siano |
stia stia stia stiamo stiate stianno |
sois sois soit soyons soyez soient |
sea seas sea seamos seáis sean |
esté estés esté estemos estés estén |
seja sejas seja sejamos sejais sejam |
esteja estejas esteja estejamos estejais estejam |
Perfect (Preterite) | FVERIM FVERIS FVERIT FVERIMVS FVERITIS FVERINT |
STETERIM STETERIS STETERIT STETERIMVS STETERITIS STETERINT |
- | - | - | fuere fueres fuere fuéremos fuereis fueren |
estuviere estuvieres estuviere estuviéremos estuviereis estuvieren |
for fores for formos fordes forem |
estiver estiveres estiver estivermos estiverdes estiverem |
Imperfect | ESSEM ESSES ESSET ESSEMVS ESSETIS ESSENT |
STAREM STARES STARET STAREMVS STARETIS STARENT |
- | - | - | - | - | ser seres ser sermos serdes serem (?) |
estar estares estar estarmos estardes estarem (?) |
Pluperfect | FVISSEM FVISSES FVISSET FVISSEMVS FVISSETIS FVISSENT |
STETISSEM STETISSES STETISSET STETISSEMVS STETISSETIS STETISSENT |
fossi fossi fosse fossimo foste fossero |
stessi stessi stesse stessimo steste stessero |
fusse fusses fût fussions fussiez fussent |
fuese fueses fuese fuésemos fueseis fuesen |
estuviese estuvieses estuviese estuviésemos estuvieseis estuviesen |
fosse fosses fosse fôssemos fôsseis fossem |
estivesse estivesses estivesse estivéssemos estivésseis estivessem |
Imperative mood and non-finite forms | |||||||||
Latin | Italian | French | Spanish | Portuguese | |||||
Imperative | ES ESTE |
STA STATE |
sii siate |
sta state |
sois soyez |
sé sed |
está estad |
sê sede |
está estai |
Infinitive | ESSE | STARE | essere | stare | être | ser | estar | ser | estar |
Perfect participle | ESVM | STATVM | stato | stato | été | sido | estado | sido | estado |
Gerund | ESENDVM | STANDVM | essendo | stando | étant | siendo | estando | sendo | estando |
I've simplified the table and added it to the article as a morphological comparison between Romance languages.
Although I left the old tables in place, I feel that they should be simplified. Nowadays, it's easy to ask for conjugation tables at a free oline conjugator. It would make more sense to make a comparison between the constructions that are used in each language to convey the same meaning, for example. FilipeS 21:06, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Is this right?
adjective | with estar | with ser |
---|---|---|
bueno | tasty, sexy | good |
I thought estar bueno was "to be good" and ser bueno was "to be kind"... FilipeS 15:06, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
The following statement is totally non sense: Stare can mean "to stand" (usually stare in piedi) but this is common only in the expression stare per, "to stand for" i.e. in abbreviations.
I'll remove it.
In the "Nuance" section for the Spanish language, the article gives "he is got old" as a possible translation for "Está viejo". However, that makes no sense in English. You could say "He has got old" or "He is getting old"; I think the latter is what the author intended, as it fits with the other examples. If no one objects within a few days, I'll change "got" to "getting". Seansinc ( talk) 08:49, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
STARE sounded quite distinct from ESSE(RE) and SEDERE, just as it does today. 47.32.20.133 ( talk) 18:56, 10 June 2018 (UTC)