{Press |author = Josh Fjelstad |title = The 100 Longest Entries On Wikipedia |org = BuzzFeed |url = http://www.buzzfeed.com/fjelstud/the-100-longest-entries-on-wikipedia#.opb19rX7o |date = 2011-06-22 |accessdate = 2014-12-13}}
I suggest merging History of massively multiplayer online games into here. SharkD Talk 19:25, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
OK, I went ahead and closed the merger request since there was no support. SharkD Talk 20:43, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
According to Matt Barton at Gamasutra, PC RPGs had their own "Golden Age" as well. Might be worth mentioning. SharkD Talk 06:06, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
The The Bard's Tale series is notably missing. Barton also spends a lot of time talking about Telengard, Temple of Apshai, etc. SharkD Talk 12:02, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Mentioned The Bard's Tale, and created a section dedicated to Diablo, which I felt was sorely missing. SharkD Talk 20:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
The section on the Ultima and Wizardry series is still pretty short. I'll see if I can flesh them out a bit more. SharkD Talk 00:42, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
The "consoles" section probably needs a mention of the Xbox and Xbox 360 as well. SharkD Talk 05:27, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
I expanded the sections on Ultima, Wizardry and Dungeon Master; and mentioned Eye of the Beholder, Wizard's Crown and Betrayal at Krondor. SharkD Talk 04:23, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
The "consoles" section really needs to be updated with stuff from after 2000. SharkD Talk 05:08, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Betrayal at Krondor could also use a bit more mention. Maybe a "Miscellaneous games of the 1990s" section. SharkD Talk 05:31, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Fable should also probably be discussed at greater length, and maybe Dungeon Siege. SharkD Talk 00:40, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
The items i removed are all justified.
Regarding this edit, the source specifically mentions "console RPGs" on the second page of the article. Quote "A devoted gamer could make a decent case for either of these Atari titles founding the RPG genre [on console systems]; nevertheless, there's no denying that Dragon Quest was the primary catalyst for the Japanese console RPG industry. And Japan is where the vast majority of console RPGs come from, to this day." Please check the sources more carefully next time!
Also, in this change you altered the meaning of the sentence that followed such that it indicated that all the systems were not showing market dominance in Japan, whereas that is only the case for the Xbox and Xbox360 according to the source that is cited.
Finally, in this edit you removed a {{ further}} template link that linked to a relevant section of another article. I'm not sure what you meant by calling it a "nonexistent article", but it would have been more helpful to instead replace the redirected link with a direct link! Please try and be more constructive with your edits, as they currently don't seem to be! SharkD Talk 22:44, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Joynt was found to be an unreliable source for knowledge on the various types of role-playing video games at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Console role-playing game and futher agreed up at Talk:Role-playing video game. Please do not re-add him. 陣 内 Jinnai 02:18, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
In addition another editor has raised on the other page a question about whether any journalist should be used for this issue. That line does have some relevance that this is something that requires scholarly references or references from notable members within the industry - ie not journalists. 陣 内 Jinnai 01:10, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Under the first paragraph of "Modern Personal Computers", the wiki entry states, "Many consider Ultima III to be the first modern CRPG", but the Barton article cited doesn't actually appear to say or imply that. Barton mentions that Ultima III was the first in the series to be wildly successful in Japan (just as the series already was in the US), and that many games there borrowed from it (as Western companies had been for two prior games), but that doesn't mean that it's considered "the first modern CRPG", let alone considered that way "by many" -- I've read a lot about the Ultima games in history, but have never seen that claim before.
The Wikipedia entry also doesn't explain what distinguishes a modern CRPG from prior ones, or what traits Ultima III had to give it that title over other Ultimas or CRPGs. If you need more concrete quotes to verify that it was the first to have certain elements, the folks over at the huge Ultima wiki The Editable Codex could likely offer sources of all kinds if you ask, or you could probably find them in the sources they cited.
If you're interested in CRPG history, you might look into the book Dungeons and Dreamers by Brad King and John Borland; it's the best title I've found on the topic by far. Matt Barton is a decent writer, but he has an odd habit of barely skimming some prominent games/series and inflating others. —☥ Xyzzy Avatar ☥ 09:30, 16 September 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xyzzyavatar ( talk • contribs)
This article has really come a long way and I want to give a special thanks to User:SharkD for spearheading that. But one thing that's bugging me is that the article's layout was flawed right from the start. (Not SharkD's fault. The headings are an artifact of a few mergers that went into this article.) The unique organization of history seems like WP:Original Research, giving undue emphasis to some parts of history. This happens to be one of the few history articles I can see that is completely unchronological. That probably comes from two problems:
I am not sure if this is controversial. It shouldn't be since it really is just a question of trying to get more chronological. But if need be we can get a few more people involved in this discussion. Shooterwalker ( talk) 02:35, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
It's taking over 30 seconds for the article to load in my browser as of late. Anyone else having these problems? SharkD Talk 19:11, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Getting pretty close to 250K now. SharkD Talk 23:45, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
Anyone else want to nominate this article as/to GA status? I think it is in a good enough state with all the content and sources. SharkD Talk 04:15, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
The artilce has gotten well beyond the point that it needs to be split. It's over 200k now. However, I'm not sure how we should go about doing this. Splitting the histories by console/computer is liable to create the same conflict that computer RPG/Console RPG terminology did. 陣 内 Jinnai 23:12, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
I think that the number of images is very excessive. I don't think I've ever seen 14 images in one article that were fair use. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 12:09, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Crisco 1492 ( talk) 13:32, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
I am currently reviewing the article. Other comments welcome. Crisco 1492 ( talk) 13:32, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
This article has failed its good article nomination. This is how the article, as of May 8, 2011, compares against the six good article criteria:
After these concerns have been addressed, the article may be renominated. Crisco 1492 ( talk) 13:50, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
Here's the stuff on kawaisa that was removed for some reason:
"Another oft-cited difference is the prominence or absence of kawaisa, or "cuteness", in Japanese culture, and different approaches with respect to character aesthetics. [1] Western RPGs tend to maintain a serious and gritty tone, with predominantly male protagonists exhibiting overtly masculine physical features and mannerisms. JRPG protagonsists tend to be designed with an emphasis on aesthetic beauty, and even male characters are often androgynous or bishōnen in appearance. JRPGs often have cute (and even comic-relief type) characters or animals, juxtaposed (or clashing) with more mature themes and situations; and many modern JRPGs feature characters designed in the same style as those in anime. [2] The stylistic differences are often due to differing target audiences: Western RPGs are usually geared primarily towards teenage to adult males, whereas Japanese RPGs are usually intended for a much larger demographic, [3] including female audiences. [4]"
Not sure how much of it can be salvaged. SharkD Talk 15:12, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Here's a blog article at Gamasutra regarding RPGs and the controversy surrounding them. I haven't read the whole thing yet. SharkD Talk 22:22, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Some talk here about the future direction of RPGs--specifically the increasing expectations viz graphical quality as well as voice overs. SharkD Talk 00:36, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
More about voice acting, and how they might contribute to games being "dumbed-down" viz previous titles due to the cost of including them in a game. SharkD Talk 00:45, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
This article posits that the reason early computer RPGs were so "hardcore" viz difficulty was because the early pen-and-paper role-playing games they were based around were similarly hardcore. I.e. they were difficult, and the characters players would create rarely survived past the first few levels. SharkD Talk 21:48, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
This author states that computer RPGs were relatively unknown during the 80s because few people owned computers at the time, and that console RPGs at the time had an "easier-to-digest level of entry". SharkD Talk 20:31, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
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