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This article may need to be split into Headwaters and Source (river or stream). Comments of others. Cuvette 04:01, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
If two named rivers, say East River and West River, join and become South River, what is the usual terminology?
Are East and West Rivers the source of South River?
Or are they the headwaters of South River?
Does South River have headwaters at all?
Are the headwaters of East and West Rivers the headwaters of South River? Thank you. Wanderer57 03:27, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
We've had a rename and broadening of definition to include lakes, with no discussion, and no source to support it. I intend to revert unless we get a source real soon now. Dicklyon ( talk) 04:14, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I searched around and could find no definition or example of this usage with respect to lakes, so I reverted all that and moved the page back to it's original name. We can go back if a reliable source is presented here first, but to be polite, an opportunity to discuss a move first would also be appreciated. Dicklyon ( talk) 05:08, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Since you still haven't made a move proposal or solicited discussion on it, and since there is opposition (me), I've moved the article back to its original title for now. Make a move proposal if you think the expanded definition is supportable. Dicklyon ( talk) 16:37, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
In support of my opposition, note that in books, "source of the river" and "river's source" are common, and almost always used in the sense defined in the article; "source of river" somewhat less consistent, but still similar. On the other hand, "source of the lake" or "lake's source" or "source of lake" is much less common, and is almost always used in a different sense, as in "source of the lake's water", "source of the Lake Superior iron ores", "source of lake supply", "Lake's source",, "the lake's source of water", etc. And there has not been any source cited to back up your definition explicitly, whereas all dictionaries define source of a river. Dicklyon ( talk) 16:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
This article's wording was overly forceful in pushing the notion of the "utmost headwaters" as the "true" and "official" source--even when the utmost headwaters are ephemeral. I understand that this is one way people determine the source of a river--perhaps most famously in the case of the Amazon River--but it is not the only "authoritative" or "official" definition. I added a USGS definition and reworded a bit. First of all let's drop the repeated use of the word "official". There is no agency, government or otherwise, with the power to force anyone to accept a specific definition of a river's source. The USGS's statements are sometimes said to be "official", but at best it only means they can set a standard of toponymy that the rest of the US federal government is obliged to follow. All others, from non-federal US government to individual people to other countries, can do as they please. So, forget "official". The word "authority" has similar problems. I added a "citation needed" tag to the claim that "all major authorities and atlases" agree that the Nile does not begin at Lake Victoria. This claim, while in the right spirit, it worded both too broadly and too vaguely. What is and what isn't a "major authority" or "major atlas"? How far back in time does this claim go? I'm doubtful there isn't some "major authority" that at some point has said the Nile's source is Lake Victoria. But if some strongly reliable source makes this claim, so be it. Otherwise can we please tone it down? In any case, despite the tone of this article (hopefully now improved), the "source" of a river means different things for different rivers under different circumstances. The Mississippi-Missouri case is the most obvious counter-example to the "utmost possible, perhaps dry drainage basin point" definition. But there are numerous other counter-examples. The USGS's United States Board on Geographic Names, about as "official" as you can get in the US, is quite clear on where the source of any given river is located--usually at a confluence. To be fair, I agree with the usefulness of the "utmost headwater" definition. But I would call this a relatively arcane definition useful within a fairly limited niche of hydrologists and the like. The more common usage, messy and illogical as it can be at times, is at least as important, and is well backed up by reliable sources. Pfly ( talk) 08:42, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
There seems to be nothing about deposition in this article at all, let alone any use of the word "deposit". So I've changed the redirect to Deposition (geology). Am I missing something? 4pq1injbok ( talk) 18:04, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
I apologize if anyone is upset with the move of this article. The formal move process is time consuming, and this article does not receive much traffic, so I decided to just go for it. If you want me to move it back, please ask me to do it on my talk page, not here. I am not crazy about the new name, "river source", but I think it is better than the old name, "source (river or stream)". I would have preferred to go with "stream source", as it is used by geologists to denote a flowing body of water without regard to size, but it does not seem to be used nearly as much as "river source" and it sounds a bit off. I also considered going with "source (stream)". For me, it is better than "river source", but I did not know if it would be accepted by others and I wanted to avoid parentheses if possible. I think that "source (hydrology)" may have been the name of the article previously. It has the advantage of being very inclusive, being shorter than "source (river or stream)" and having the same disambiguation as other hydrological articles, like inflow (hydrology) and quite a few other articles. My favorite option would be to use "headwater", second choice "headwaters", but there were objections to this name in the first section of this talk page. I will put a list of name options below and people can indicate which one they prefer. If there is another name, please add it to the list. I will change it to whatever the consensus is. You could do it voting style and put two asterisks followed by your signature (four tildes in a row) below the name or names that you like. The other option is to state what name or names that you prefer and to explain why. I suppose that you could also put a short message about why you like a particular name in your voting entry, like discussions at Articles for Deletion (AfD). I encourage expressing support for more than one name, as it will be easier to form a consensus. You may want to indicate your order of preference for the names. Please let me know on my talk page if a consensus is formed.
-- Kjkolb ( talk) 09:44, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Three ips have added a quote by someone who navigated the Congo as a source for "spring" as a river source. A canoists comments are not a "source" for that claim. The ips have also referred to a biblical verse as a reference for "spring" as a river's source. A bible verse doesn't work as a WP:RS for such a definition - just evidence of usage. Can a "spring" be a river's source? Of course, but a reliable source is needed to define it that way. To the anon, please discuss rather than edit warring. Thanks, Vsmith ( talk) 01:00, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Currently the entire introduction reads: The source or headwaters of a river or stream is the place from which the water in the river or stream originates.
This is not correct. Obviously the water in a river or stream could originate from anywhere in the drainage basin. There are a few definitions for "source" but this introduction doesn't match any of them. Ordinary Person ( talk) 11:01, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
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