This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject American Open Wheel Racing, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
open wheelauto racing in the United States, with an emphasis on
IndyCar racing, on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.American Open Wheel RacingWikipedia:WikiProject American Open Wheel RacingTemplate:WikiProject American Open Wheel RacingAmerican Open Wheel Racing articles
Ray Harroun is within the scope of WikiProject Indiana, an open collaborative effort to coordinate work for, and sustain comprehensive coverage of the
U.S. state of
Indiana and related subjects on Wikipedia.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Motorsport, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Motorsport on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MotorsportWikipedia:WikiProject MotorsportTemplate:WikiProject Motorsportmotorsport articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pennsylvania, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Pennsylvania on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PennsylvaniaWikipedia:WikiProject PennsylvaniaTemplate:WikiProject PennsylvaniaPennsylvania articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
Scoring error @1911 500 gave the win to Harroun; who was supposedly cheated out of a win? I was so sure it was Tommy Milton, but his page sez N...
Trekphiler16:31, 22 December 2005 (UTC)reply
The other driver was Ralph Mulford, who filed a protest. What happened was that Harroun had a tire failure that forced him to pit at about the 340 mile mark. According to Mulford, he passed Harroun while the latter limped to the pits and then again while in the pits, thereby lapping him. The official scoring only records him passing for position. Mulford was then also forced to make a pit stop for a tire, and his crew reportedly struggled to remove the wheel from the car. When the dust settled, Harroun was scored with a 1:48 lead. The problem is that the "official" timing and scoring at that point of the race is unclear, as the timing stand was disrupted by an accident.
However, it was pointed out by officials in response to the protest that when Harroun was forced to pit, the cars were on the same lap and running close together. Harroun's pit stop was problem-free and he returned to the track with minimal delay. Mulford, who was in the lead at this point, was then forced to pit for the same reason (damaged tire). Because one of his wheels was stuck to the hub, his pit stop was much longer. All else being equal, Mulford would have returned to the track further behind Harroun than before all of this occurred. The evidence, on the whole, seems to favor Harroun as the legitimate winner. While I don't doubt that Mulford believed himself to be in the lead, that doesn't mean much, as drivers don't have the "big picture" and are very dependent on their crew to monitor and advise them of their track position.
Joel Blanchette14:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)reply
On the subject of Milton, 1911 would be too early for him, as he wouldn't be involved with major races until after the First World War; Milton would win in 1921 and 1923 as a young man, as well. As it stands, we'll never know whether it was Harroun or Mulford (I agree, it was likely Harroun, given the evidence), because the AAA destroyed all records of the first race. A little bit of conspiracy theory can be a healthy thing for interest in history's quirks, I suppose. --
Chr.K.07:44, 23 November 2006 (UTC)reply
At least one article I have read (perhaps by Ralph Stein, in "The Treasury of the Automobile" published in the early 1960's) reviewed Harroun's race strategy: determine the slowest average speed that will win the race, and then aim to maintain that speed, instead of going as fast as possible, with more frequent stops for tire changes and other possible failures. In an era when tire failure (and the resulting stop) was a significant contributor to overall elapsed time, this was a sensible engineer's approach to endurance racing. That Harroun was placed as far back as 28th (?) and yet ended up being awarded the win, testifies to the value of his thinking. This was a novel approach at the time, and Harroun deserves credit, if indeed the strategy was his idea.
JZC (
talk)
00:52, 1 April 2008 (UTC)reply
"Jagersberger hitting scorer's stand"
Donald Davidson, in his Autocourse Official History of the Indianapolis 500, makes very clear this did not happen. The details of the scoring error can be found therein, and if no one else updates it in awhile, I'll acquire the book and make the adjustments, with citation. ---
Chr.K. (
talk)
21:53, 30 January 2009 (UTC)reply
External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on
Ray Harroun. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
this tool.