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Well, tennant 22 of the Pythagorean Maxims (as listed in the Phanes Press "Pythagorean Sourcebook and Library") is: "Abstain from eatting animals." So, that's pretty clear.
The biography recorded by Diogenes Laertius also makes it clear in section 12 that this follows as part of the Pythagorean beliefs about universal friendship and equality. It is also written there that there is some confusion surrounding a diet book written by Pythagoras encouraging athletes to train while eatting meat instead of the usual athletic diet of dried figs and cheese. This, however, was not
written by Pythagoras of Samos, but by a different Pythagoras. This might be the source of your confusion. The Pythagoras of Samos was, indeed a very strict vegetarian, and, in fact, encouraged eatting of any "animal foods" in moderation. I hope that helps clear up some of the confusion.
dude, i think he was a [vegetarian]
[calling him a vegetarian was an attempt to make him sound like a nut; avoiding meat was considered to be a taboo; it had something to do with canibalism and equating human/animal life as being equal. This is one of the biggest myths that's ever been perpetuated...]
I don't get what the hell you are talking about... AllyMcD 04:06, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Moved here so that somebody can figure out how to salvage... Stan 03:31, 30 Jul 2003 (UTC)
He used his rational knowledge to prove that harmonious melodies are related to mathematical ratios: He discovered that if you pluck two strings which have the same tension, and then divide one of them exactly in half, the pitch of the shorter string is exactly one octave higher than the longer one. "
But sound waves can have a very negative effect on peoples subconscious as Patrick Flanagan, a modern controversial thinker, states. The human ear can only hear certain frequencies but our subconscious takes in other levels of sound we cannot make out. The same way we can learn while asleep by playing a tape or something.
there's something wrong with the greek link to Pythagoras ( Πυθαγόρας ) and i can't seem to fix it. =/
On anachronistic links: IMHO the =External Links= section should be open to views that wouldn't be appropriate in the article - otherwise they risk spilling over into the text, especially in a subject like "Pythagoras" that tends to attract cranks. I say we do our best to note the perspective they come from and leave them in even if they're beyond the pale of good scholarship. Getting into an edit war over it isn't worth our time. Bacchiad 21:35, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be a disambig article somewhere? There are at least 3 Pythagoras: this one, the crater on the moon, and the Greek sculptor. -- Yurik 19:13, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I'd heard, a while ago, that it's speculated that Pythagoras stole some of his works from his students or some others. Anyone got a source for this? I'd like to see it added to the article, whether it's true or false. Nathyn 06:47, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
It is speculated/believed by sone/many historians that Pythagoras never existed (but was rather a mythical father-figure for the Pythagoreans). Certainly the fact that all the "primary sources" listed wrote more than five centuries after his alleged dates is a bad sign. Shouldn't this be mentioned somewhere? - Algebraist 23:17, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
Algebraist, I think you misunderstood the statement that the Pythagorean Theorem wasn't attributed to Pythagoras for five centuries. Even though the Theorem wasn't attributed to him, lots of other things were. As well doubt the existance of Socrates. Rick Norwood 00:37, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
I prefer BC, just because that is what I grew up with. But the official Wiki style sheet requires BCE (B.C.E.???). Comments? Rick Norwood 19:27, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
Hi,
Is his last name (surname) not known?
Thanks, 17:38, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
I know the first surnames were your occupation (such as hunter, etc) but when was that? I thought Pythagoras was his last name, and his first name was just like his birthdate, lost track of??
AllyMcD
03:56, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I find it odd that the Hippocratic Oath of the Pythagorean Brotherhood states, "First do no harm"; when Pythagoras himself drowned Hippasus after not wanting to believe that Hippasus's discovery of the square root of 2 is irrational. Even though it was common back then to give credit to a famous teacher of the discoveries of his students, In my opinion, I find his action of murder being hypocritical of his hippocratic oath.
Kelly C. Grube 10/20/05
I'd like to see a reference for the claim that Pythagoras was the first person to discover that the earth is a globe. Rick Norwood 19:20, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Really? I though that Columbus (or is it Columbi?)guy discovered the Earth is a globe? 13:38 4 March 2006
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/biography/Pythagoras.html It sites three sources, I'll leave it to you to dig through those three to find the exact reference. Also, Eratosthenes is generally credited with being the first to calculate the circumference of the earth (276BC-194BC), so I think its fair to say there were a number of people to believe the Earth was a globe. Columbus neither proved, nor discovered it, and actually believe it to be 1/3 its current size. The first person to circumnavigate the Earth generally goes to Ferdinand Magellan who never did it in a single trip, but did visit the Philippines coming from both directions. I suppose you could say he was the first person to prove that the earth was round.
The section on Scientific contributions contains a number of doubtful claims. For example, if the Egyptians were more advanced mathematically than the Greeks of the 6th century BCE, none of that writing survives. There is much more written Mesopotamean mathematics than there is Egyptian. The only Egyptian reference to the Pythagorean theorem is a single mathematical problem the answer to which is a 3, 4, 5 triangle. Also, the references to mathematics in China is controversial -- usually dated from the Han dynasty but claimed by some to be much older. This controversy is interesting, but does not belong here.
With some trepedation, I am going to attempt a rewrite, attempting to focus on what is known about the Pytahgoreans rather than on claims of prior knowledge of the theorem by other cultures, which is discussed extensively in the article Pythagorean theorem. Rick Norwood 01:12, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
The fact he's considered one of the world's first famous vegetarians, should probably get at least a mention in the article Sherurcij 12:33, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
Actually he was anti-vegetarian; he considered the avoidance of meat to be a taboo. The guy probably misunderstood. I don't know why people are still getting this wrong. I've come across this on numerous sources; it's not like it's new info. I remember doing a paper on this about 10 years ago in HS and even my teacher got it wrong until I pointed the wording out to her. The "Pythagoreans" was a reference to people who attended the school Pythagoras had, dealing with philosophy and religion and such. He got a lot of sh*t, because a lot of the leaders didn't have any idea what he was talking about and he was very selective (you had to already "get it," in other words), so there was obviously a lot of propaganda put out to make him into some sort of a cult leader (Rome and Brittain??); there's also significant evidence he knew magi and druids at some point of his life.. -Anonymous
>Anonymous, can you give some references to this? I'm inclined to believe you, I should say. This I do because Milo (the wrestler), one of the most famous first-generation Pythagoreans, was famous for eating enourmous quantities of meat. -August
If no-one is sure of Pythagoras's (?) birthdate & deathdate, isn't there a grave stone some one can go and check somewhere? On another subject though, it sounds like Pythagoras was a bit of a madman to me. All those things this website says about those people who lived at his school... That really doesn't sound at all normal if you ask me. Does anyone know if he had mental issues? -- 4 March 2006
People are having some fun playing with the dates. The fact is that very little is known with any certainty about Pythagoras, and his dates are a matter of which source you read. Also, there are people who amuse themselves by changing BCE to BC and other people who amuse themselves changing BC back to BCE. Like Earth itself, this is mostly harmless. Rick Norwood 13:13, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree. Rick Norwood 13:37, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm confused as to what BC is, and what BCE is? What's the difference? I heard somewhere it was the same timezone, they were just changing it because now it's even longer ago than it was afew years ago....? - 13:43, 4 March 2006 220.239.2.137 03:44, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I've fixed some of the mistakes in the recent large addition on Pythagoreanism. I found it interesting reading, but wonder whether a lot of it does not belong in the article Pythagoreanism rather than here. Rick Norwood 21:26, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
I know that Pythagoras lived from 582 BC to 507 BC.It said so in Webster's dictionary.
It's confusing when you say he practiced pythagoreanism when he invented it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.25.49.67 ( talk) 01:29, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone here know WHERE Pythagoras died? - AllyMcD 04:04, 4 March 2006 (UTC) Does anyone know when he was born?
I've removed some doubtful claims from the article. I followed the link that was given in support of these claims, and found material that is not NPOV, of which the following sentence is an example, "The great and compassionate heart of Pythagoras ached with helpless pity for those weak souls who had strayed from the Path." Rick Norwood 19:46, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
What about an image of Pythagoras?- User:Agoodperson
I'm going to delete this unless someone can confirm it. Rick Norwood 22:11, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Greek names are inflected, that is, the spelling changes depending on where the name appears in a sentence. The most famous example of this is the Greek god Deus, whose name becomes Zeus in the (I think) objective case. When transliterated into English, various endings have become standard, for example, Mark rather than Marcus. Other names, such as Hero/Heron, have never been standardized. Rick Norwood 14:04, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
hi , I have some questions and need your help !
1.Actually , what was Pythagoras interested in ? Is it philosophy , music , religious or mathematics ? as the article said " Pythagoras and his students believed that everything was related to mathematics and thought that everything could be predicted and measured in rhythmic patterns or cycles.", he was likely not interested in religious , but he is a great philosopher and founder of the mysterious religious
2. Did people in Pythagoras’s time notice the special relationship between the sides of a right- angled triangle?
3.Why was Pythagoras recognized for the theorem though it had been used before him?
Thanks
just added paragraph on pythagoras influence on plato- feel free to change/adapt/remove according to your opinion-- Greece666 20:20, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
According to Iamblichus, because of his "moral teachings, Pythagoras deserved no longer to be called by his patronymic..." which leads one to wonder if "Pythagoras" was a nick name or an honorific of some sort. The oracle of Apollo at Delphi was named Pythia and the greek word for "market place" was "agora", so would the moniker "Pythagoras" refer to an "oracle of the market place"? The reference in Iamblichus ends "...but that all men should call him divine." -- Jbergquist 07:47, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
There is more that one version of the death of Pythagoras and one also wonders about whether or not there was a Cylon. There is a Greek word χυλοσ which translates as pap or chyle and which suggests something not worth keeping. But with Pythagoras' strict discipline there may be some truth to the story.-- Jbergquist 07:56, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Hello, The article on Pythagorans, in the part about the Pythagoreans states that: "The akousmatikoi recognized the mathematikoi as real Pythagoreans, but not vice versa." It is actually the other way around. Here is the relevant qoute from Iamblichus (translated by Kirk, Raven and Schofield)
"There are two varieties of the Italian philosophy which is called Pythagorean. For those who practised it were also of two sorts, the acusmatici and the mathematici. Of these the acusmatici were accepted as Pythagoreans by the other patry but they did not allow that the mathematici were Pythagoreans, holding that their intellectual pursuits derived not from Pythagorans but from Hippasus."
G.S. Kirk, J.E. Raven, M. Schofield, 'The Presocratic Philosophers', Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 1983 (2nd edition, p. 234.
Cheers.
this seems interesting- maybe the phrase in the article should be reformulated.-- Greece666 11:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
The birth and death dates in the article text don't match the corresponding categories. AnonMoos 17:49, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this approach as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 16:36, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
I was tempted to mark the whole article as lacking references while I was reading the pythagorians section. It seems to be written in from a personal perspective (see NPOV), e.g. it is interspersed with "seems like". Furthermore it lacks references. -- Ben T/ C 23:51, 18 October 2006 (UTC) Could you be more specific about what you do not like about the Pythagoreans section. FDR | MyTalk 21:09:51 October 30, 2006 (UTC)
This article doesn't seem to have anything about the awesome bean-field story! Salad Days 06:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, did he? Was the guy who wrote his biography a good source? Didn't he live a long time after the death of P.?
- A man named Pythagoras probably did found the Pythagoreans. But other than that, yes we know nothing about him. No documents have survived. Maybe he wasn't that interesting :p Everything here and in other histories come from biographies written 700 years after he supposedly lived. Most of it is very likely contrived. Yes, the Pythagoreans existed, but the dude Pythagoras discussed here was a invention in 200AD by historians to provide a figurehead for the Pythagoreans, tell a good story and be fashionable. The problem is that people think that this Pythagoras is real, when he's about as real as King Arthur pulling swords out of stones. matt me 18:04, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Who can confirm that Pythagoras was a boxer on 588 BC Olympic games? This information denies his birthdate, but it very much a common belief! Sidik iz PTU 17:20, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
on the last paragraph on the 'biography' section, it says:
'According to myth, he died at the hands of a soldier, because he refused to trample a bean-field while fleeing.'
but on the end of the first paragraph on the 'pythagoreans' section it says:
'After the murder of Pythagoras and a number of the mathematikoi by the cohorts of Cylon, a resentful disciple, the two groups split from each other entirely, with Pythagoras's wife Theano and their two daughters leading the mathematikoi.'
so the right one is the second one???
--Chika 11/29/2006
SOMEONE VANDALIZED THIS SITE. THEY HAD IT SAY "THE POOP HE ATE WHICH TOOK HIS NAME" INSTEAD OF PYTHAGOREAN THEOREM.
In Bertrand Russell's 'History of Western Philosophy', two possible fathers are listed, the first being Mnesarchus and the second being the god Apollo (presumably their relationship is similar to the Christian God and Christ). This may sound ridiculous, but some people must hold (or have held) this belief and perhaps it should be included? Luke 31/12/06
Depends. What is Bertrand Russell's source for Apollonic heritage? If Bertrand Russell was speculating a couple of millennia after the fact, then no. If Russell had a source and did not identify it, then we should hold off until we could identify who the source was and determine his/her reliability. Brendan 11 Jan 2007
The exact wording is as follows: "Some say he was the son of a substantial citizen named Mnesarchos, others that he was the son of the god Apollo; I leave the reader to take his choice between these alternatives." Presumably, then, it was something he had read and not his own view, but he doesn't cite a source. I don't know what the Wikipedia opinion is on second-hand information. Luke 20/01/07
The external links list seems to be growing out of control. Can it be reduced or cleaned up? Does this article really need links to a variety of New Age/occult Web sites about Pythagoras? -- 69.229.201.111 00:30, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
The article seems to take the classical view of Pythagoras and the Pythagoreans. This has been thoroughly refuted by Walter Burkert in the 1960s.
The seminal work on the life of Pythagoras is: (1962) Walter Burkert: Weisheit und Wissenschaft: Studien zu Pythagoras, Philolaus und Platon (translated into English in 1972 under the title Lore and Science in Ancient Pythagoreanism)
Some of the glaring mistakes in the article: - There is absolutely no proof that pythagoras was a mathematician. There are very few pythagoreans who were mathematicians of note. - The attribution of mathematical theories to pythagoras was an invention by the platonic Academy centuries later. Such attributions to famous sages was very common in ancient greece. - The pythagorean cult was very heavily political.
For recent scholarship on Pythagoras see: Pythagoras: His Life, Teaching and Influence by Christoph Riedweg trans. Steven Rendall · Cornell, 216 pp Pythagoras and the Pythagoreans: A Brief History by Charles Kahn · Hackett, 193 pp.
For a review of the above two books, and the above controversies see: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n04/burn02_.html
Sorry, I can't rewrite the article. First, I am not an expert. Second, I don't have time to research. Someone who can research the above books or others can rewrite the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 196.0.7.1 ( talk) 16:04, 17 March 2007 (UTC).
Dear Jvbishop, Your deletion of my two lines that i added for Pythagorus' travel to India (which he might have enjoyed), is fine for the time being. But I may add it soon, once i feel more comfortable with whatever arguments i have. Still, if you find it ok, do give me a reply (reasons) as to whether it will or it won't be ok for you to have that idea added to the article (I will refine those lines, though), in case i provide the two evidences that I am about to talk in next few lines. So far I have found only two evidences for that: one http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/jwh/16.2/mohan.html (same is available on muse.jhu.edu/journals/journal_of_world_history/v016/16.2mohan.html and another indirect one through Seidenberg, A. 1983. "The Geometry of the Vedic Rituals." In The Vedic Ritual of the Fire Altar. Ed. Frits Staal. Berkeley: Asian Humanities Press. The first one is actually based on voltaire's book La civilisation la plus antique. So let me know your arguments, you already know the line of reasoning I may adopt to justify my re-addition (I want to read the Voltaire's book first). My intent is not so sincere though:-), it is to impres upon the reader of the article, on the lines of Voltaire and Seidenberg, that there is sufficient and arguable evidence to suggest that Pythagorus was influenced by Hindu philosophy. And for some reason (obvious or not) I want it to be more direct than a line that just hints that his thoughts were similar to that of hinduism by some coincidence. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.7.175.2 ( talk) 19:26, 5 April 2007 (UTC). Skant 19:29, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Additional comment not related to above and by different author - Please remove the bogus String Theory from this article. Placing String Theory next to Buddhism as the most important philosophies in the world almost made me spit my coffee out in laughter. -RWS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.80.244.204 ( talk)
Done—let's see if anyone objects. Deor 01:45, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I just wrote a paragraph stating that some people beleive that Pythagoras and his followers had favism i realized that i don't have the reference in front of me, but i PROMISE i will post it within the week. -Jordan Fink
Now, why was my post deleted? the "talk" section associated with the deletion said that my contribution was "unhelpful." why? I studied this stuff in college. I want to get the reference right. -jordan fink
-jf —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.236.157.219 ( talk) 07:14, 21 April 2007 (UTC).
I'm thinking about adding some info taken from the Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable (1898, in the public domain), namely a revised version of this:
The golden thigh of Pythagoras. This thigh he showed to Ab’aris, the Hyperborean priest, and exhibited it in the Olympic games. Abaris, priest of the Hyperbo’reans, gave him a dart, by which he was carried through the air, over inaccessible rivers, lakes and mountains; expelled pestilence; lulled storms; and performed other wonderful exploits. Pythagoras maintained that the soul has three vehicles: (1) the ethereal, which is luminous and celestial, in which the soul resides in a state of bliss in the stars; (2) the luminous, which suffers the punishment of sin after death; and (3) the terrestrial, which is the vehicle it occupies on this earth. Pythagoras asserted he could write on the moon. His plan of operation was to write on a looking-glass in blood, and place it opposite the moon, when the inscription would appear photographed or reflected on the moon’s disc.
Provided, of course, these facts haven't been disproved in some way since that time. Any thoughts? Dr spork 04:20, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Since there were no objections, I've added the above in a section called "lore". Dr spork 03:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
So it says in the Pythagoreans section: this is surely false, it comes from akouein, to listen, and, as the article correctly says earlier, they are the listeners. Beyond this, I don't know Pythagoras enough to make the changes. Dast 10:16, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
I heard Pythagoras was the first to find that strings divided into simple ratios gave pleasing sounds. Obviously we now know it's frequency not the length directly that affects this. But still. Any mention? Henryc4 00:51, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
But this is overly-detailed apocryphal biographical stuff. The "Other accomplishments" section is even worse on this subject. At the very least, there should be a link to Pythagorean tuning in the body of the article, which I'll try to provide. Wareh 14:10, 6 June 2007 (UTC)According to legend, the way Pythagoras discovered that musical notes could be translated into mathematical equations was one day as he passed blacksmiths at work, and thought that the sounds emanating from their anvils being hit were beautiful and harmonious and decided that whatever scientific law caused this to happen must be mathematical and could be applied to music. He went to the blacksmiths to learn how this had happened by looking at their tools. He discovered that it was because the anvils were "simple ratios of each other, one was half the size of the first, another was 2/3 the size, and so on."
i think you should make his info a bit more easier to understand case its to difficult to understand.
Reference to this was removed today, with an edit summary referring to a talk page commentary that doesn't seem to have materialized yet. Anyway, this is a notable ancient tradition, and it should be included in the article (along with scholarly doubts about it). As a starting point, from a hasty Google search, here's a footnote from an article by Tom Habinek: "Against the ancient view that Pythagoras was the first to call himself philosophos, see Burkert 1961 and 1972, endorsed by Skutsch 1985. Against Burkert's critique, see de Vogel 1966.96–102, Gottschalk 1980, and, most recently, Riedweg 2004." Wareh 18:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)