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How did they hear about him? His wife is their countries head of state and monarch! Doesn't the much larger Papa New Guinea (sp?) have something similar except with the Queen?
YourPTR!09:02, 13 April 2007 (UTC)reply
My apoligies, I confused Vanuatu with Tuvalu! The Queen is head of state of many kingdoms in the region and interestingly, she remains Queen of Fiji despite that state having a republican form of government. Oh and she's not "Queen of England", there is no Queen of England title and there hasn't been since the Scottish and English Crowns were united in the early half of the 17th century. She is Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
YourPTR!19:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)reply
The arrival of US forces during the Second World War saw the emergence of a belief in a mythical messianic figure named John Frum. It was the basis for another indigenous cult to rival the one surrounding Prince Philip. Today, John Frum is both a religion and a political party with a member in Parliament —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
86.161.169.224 (
talk)
20:29, 31 May 2010 (UTC)reply
Factuality??
I am terribly sorry, but to me this whole affair just reeks of urban myth/"benevolent racism". Most of the sources are English tabloids. And even the article in the more respectable Daily Telegraph does not convince me. Is there ANY proof that these islanders REALLY believe that Prince Philip is a god? I think it is more probable that this is just their way to pay respect to their (former) monarch, or even that they found out it is a clever way to get media attention and goods. As long as there is no proof of REAL worshipping, I remain extremely doubtful. --
91.7.86.78 (
talk)
09:09, 23 July 2009 (UTC)reply
In an interview Prince Philip told that he has not the right to tell people what they believe in. To say that he is not a divine cloud have very negative effects on those people and so its offical position of the Buckingham Palace that Prince Philip does not claims to be a god but also does says he is not. --
188.22.142.23 (
talk)
00:41, 25 May 2012 (UTC)reply
This phenomenon has been documented several times. The first reference I can think of, is Christopher Hicthens' book "God is not great". If I remember correctly, he devotes an entire chapter to the creation of religions in this way. He usually cites his sources very accurately.
131.130.16.17 (
talk)
10:51, 1 April 2010 (UTC)reply
Do we have a source for the quote about him saying that he hasn't got a right to tell them what to believe, someone mentioned a couple of comments up. Something like that should be in the article if so. Sounds like a bit of shocking nonsense. I was surprised by the lack of any mention of him trying to disuade them of his divinity, and actually his actions appear to encourage it. That's not acceptable surely? There must be some reliable source that's addressed that if that is the situation surely? If someone asks you if you're a god you should tell them no. Unless you're a ghostbuster of course.
121.74.233.34 (
talk)
21:13, 13 December 2012 (UTC)reply
Apparently the followers of this faith are
discussing this question. The IP's second suggestion of Prince Charles succeeding Prince Philip appears to be among the possibilities. But according to that article, they did not worship him as a god, but revered him as one of them.
Double sharp (
talk)
09:29, 14 April 2021 (UTC)reply
I don't think they really believe that Prince Philip is a 'god' in a sense that he is throwing lightnings or turn water in a wine. Article says they believe he is a 'son of spirit', which rather means something akin to folk hero. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
178.43.146.125 (
talk)
19:30, 23 April 2019 (UTC)reply
The article uses both "is a divine being" and "was a divine being". I'm not sure which is better. If they believe in his divinity, they might believe he is not dead. I think we ought to pick one or the other and be consistent, but I'm not sure which is better. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
18:19, 9 April 2021 (UTC)reply
I'm unsure of their views on immortality and how that might be affected by divinity. But I guess Wikipedia voice has to place Phillip firmly in the past tense.
Martinevans123 (
talk)
18:25, 9 April 2021 (UTC)reply
But how should we describe what they believe? Their belief may involve him existing in the present tense. I have edited the article to sidestep the issue, rephrasing as "believe in the divinity of". —
BarrelProof (
talk)
18:31, 9 April 2021 (UTC)reply
This
source says that they believe "Prince Phillip is immortal, but if he dies they might transfer allegiance to Prince Charles or perhaps his sons". Somewhat contradictory.
Martinevans123 (
talk)
18:57, 9 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Changing "is" to "was" is merely pointing out that he's dead. Changing "believe" to "believed" implies that their religious stance has changed, however we don't know this yet..
Madbrad200 (
talk)
22:28, 9 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Experts on the movement seem to suggest that adherents will now begin to deify Prince Charles following Philip's death (
[2]), but I'm not sure what this means re worshipping Philip's divinity after death. (Plus, at this point it is speculation until we hear what the movement is actually doing.) –
Bangalamania (
talk)
12:36, 11 April 2021 (UTC)reply
I can't dig up a link but apparently BBC have talked to the tribe, and they consider him still a god, but his spirit is looking for a place to land. There will be a feast with many pigs eaten. --
Cimon Avaro; on a pogostick. (
talk)
10:50, 12 April 2021 (UTC)reply
It seems anthropologist Kirk Huffman is the expert. Apparently: "In 2007, several tribesmen met the duke in person. Flown to the UK for the Channel 4 reality television series Meet the Natives, five tribal leaders had an off-screen meeting with the duke at Windsor Castle where they presented gifts and asked when he would return to Tanna. His reply, as reported by the tribesmen later, was cryptic - "when it turns warm, I will send a message" - but appeared to please them."
"But more importantly, "there has always been the idea that Prince Philip would return some day, either in person or in spiritual form", says Mr Huffman, who adds that some may think his death will finally trigger this eventuality. And so, while the Duke of Edinburgh lies in rest in Windsor Castle, there is the belief that his soul is making its final journey across the waves of the Pacific Ocean to its spiritual home, the island of Tanna - to reside with those who have loved and revered him from afar all these years."Martinevans123 (
talk)
11:12, 12 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Requested move 9 April 2021
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Unfortunately "cult" became pejorative. I agree with lower case "m". (also, will the name of this religion change, in case of Prince Charles becoming the new god?) –
Alenshatalk19:49, 9 April 2021 (UTC)reply
I would agree with the above that "cult" is far too pejorative. If we do accept this as a
cargo cult (which I don't know is entirely accurate –
this Telegraph piece from today describes it as a "visionary movement ... different to the cargo cults that developed in other parts of Melanesia", and I'm aware that the concept of a cargo cult is controversial in some quarters of anthropology, though I am no expert on the subject), then I'd say a lowercase-m "movement" is best.
John Frum movement for example redirects to the page
John Frum, which is described as a "movement" in the article, with
John Frum cult being a redlink. –
Bangalamania (
talk)
20:37, 9 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Ideally, perhaps. But I think it's acceptable as it is. The subject of that article is the prophet/deity, which is different from the case here, since there is already a different article about
Prince Philip himself. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
16:10, 13 April 2021 (UTC)reply
What are the chances they read Wikipedia and assumed that was the official name, since it's not a very well-known movement?
Kingsif (
talk)
18:31, 12 April 2021 (UTC)reply
It's certainly possible— this is obviously not exhaustive research, but a quick Google search for results before 2007 (the creation of the article) doesn't seem to have any results on the subject at all, so it may be that Wikipedia spread this name alongside knowledge of the movement as a whole. But even if coined by Wikipedia, there's no denying that it's become the common name: you can find
probablydozensofarticles referring to the "Prince Philip Movement" (usually, but not always, with the uppercase 'M'), including ones
written before his passing. —
Kawnhr (
talk)
17:01, 13 April 2021 (UTC)reply
My two cents are that I don't see the need to move a page unless we are sure it needs to be moved. We aren't even sure that any other name is ever used, let alone that there is another name that is used more commonly than this one. So we don't even need to get into what is the more offensive or correct terminology to use. Furthermore, with the recent passing of the Late Prince Philip, I suspect that this page should stay as it is permanently.
Skb7 (
talk)
07:20, 14 April 2021 (UTC)reply
But Wikipedia has a
house style, and the guideline (at
MOS:CAPS) says "Wikipedia avoids unnecessary
capitalization" and that "only words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources are capitalized in Wikipedia." If the sources to do not consistently use the name "Prince Philip Movement" (with a capital 'M') as a
proper name, then Wikipedia shouldn't either. The fact that we can find a few sources that do that doesn't mean that Wikipedia should do it. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
15:56, 14 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisting comment: To avoid short circuiting discussion about other move destination. Interestingly, nobody has technically !voted. (Non-administrator comment) ~
Aseleste (
t,
e |
c,
l)
19:22, 16 April 2021 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.