Talk:poverty In Ancient Rome

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Poverty in ancient Rome has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: July 28, 2024. ( Reviewed version).

A fact from Poverty in ancient Rome appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 27 August 2022 ( check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the poor of ancient Rome were compared to dogs by the Roman writer Martial?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/August. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Poverty in ancient Rome.

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	This article was accepted from this draft on 10 August 2022 by reviewer Gusfriend ( talk · contribs).

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Z1720 ( talk) 00:12, 19 August 2022 (UTC) reply

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that the Roman writer Martial compared the poor to dogs? Source: Erdkamp, Paul, ed. (September 30, 2013), The Cambridge Companion to Ancient Rome, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, doi: 10.1017/CCO9781139025973, ISBN 978-113-902-597-3, archived from the original (PDF) on June 16, 2018, retrieved August 8, 2022.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Sensory friendly

Created by Graearms ( talk). Self-nominated at 15:37, 10 August 2022 (UTC). reply

~~Review underway.~~ BeanieFan11 ( talk) 15:05, 11 August 2022 (UTC) reply

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Everything appears good. QPQ done. AGF on the source which I can't access. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 15:19, 11 August 2022 (UTC) reply

Just as a note the wrong source is listed above, it's actually the source Poverty in the Roman World which is referenced in the article. I am able to confirm that page 95 of that book does indeed verify the text in the hook: The association of the poor with dogs recurs in different forms in other epigrams of Martial. It then goes on to describe various things "the pauper" will do that is like a dog. The Cambridge Companion to Ancient Rome is available through the Wikipedia Library and is in a searchable form and does not, to the best that I can tell, mention anything about comparing the poor with dogs, but the Poverty in the Roman World source absolutely does. - Aoidh ( talk) 11:07, 13 August 2022 (UTC) reply

@ Graearms: I added a citation needed tag to the article. Can you resolve this? Thanks, Z1720 ( talk) 23:32, 18 August 2022 (UTC) reply

I just fixed it. Thank you for notifying me of this issue and helping me improve this article. Graearms ( talk) 23:37, 18 August 2022 (UTC) reply

GA Review

Passed. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 22:41, 28 July 2024 (UTC) reply

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Poverty in ancient Rome/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Graearms ( talk · contribs) 17:41, 9 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Reviewer: Iazyges ( talk · contribs) 06:43, 17 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Will take this on. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 06:43, 17 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Criteria

GA Criteria

GA Criteria:

1
1.a Y

1.b Y
2
2.a Y

2.b Y

2.c Y

2.d Y
3
3.a Y

3.b Y
4
4.a Y
5
5.a Y
6
6.a N

6.b Y

No DAB links Y
No dead links Y
No missing citations Y
Passes spot checks Y
Ref 101: Hands 1968, p. 54. Y

Ref 141: Bowes 2011, p. 9. Y

Ref 5: Osborne & Atkins 2006, p. 5. Y -- Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 20:22, 28 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Discussion

Apologies for the delay! For 6a: The files were missing a part of the licensure; as they need a license for both object and photographer. For File:Duble herma of Socrates and Seneca Antikensammlung Berlin 07.jpg and File:Roman Empire Apartment (2751806330).jpg, we have the copyright tag for the photographer of the photos, so I have added the relevant object tag, but for File:Sale bread MAN Napoli Inv9071 n01.jpg, we have the work tag but not author tag. From metadata, it appears to be CCA, and the author is tagged as the uploader, so I've reached out to them to clarify. For File:Roman harvester, Trier.jpg, I am struggling to find an older version, but with works that far back that is not always proof of originality. The poster seems to have had some issues with derivative work & copyright, so unless it can be identified that the work was posted under an acceptable license (which would be very difficult if not impossible), I think this work needs to be removed/replaced from the article. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 16:54, 27 July 2024 (UTC) reply
Would the file Mähmaschine.jpg be an acceptable substitute for the file Roman harvester, Trier.jpg? Graearms ( talk) 19:00, 27 July 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Graearms: Yep! I have added the 3d tag for it. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 18:52, 28 July 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Iazyges I have replaced the image. Graearms ( talk) 18:56, 28 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Prose Suggestions

Please note that almost all of these are suggestions, and can be implemented or ignored at your discretion. Any changes I deem necessary for the article to pass GA standards I will bold.

The good reputation the wealthy would gather through these efforts allowed for them to gain favors from other wealthy Romans. In the Pro Plancio, a legal defense of Gnaeus Placius in 54 BCE, Cicero asks "Who ever can have, or who ever had such resources in himself as to be able to stand without many acts of kindness on the part of many friends?" it looks like the primary source is being used to cover the The good reputation the wealthy would gather through these efforts allowed for them to gain favors from other wealthy Romans. bit as well as the In the Pro Plancio, a legal defense of Gnaeus Placius in 54 BCE, Cicero asks "Who ever can have, or who ever had such resources in himself as to be able to stand without many acts of kindness on the part of many friends?" section; while the primary source is fine for the second portion, we would want an independent source for the first one.
Clement I, the Catholic pope from 88 to 99 CE seems easier to phrase this as Catholic Pope Clement I ( r. 88–099).
All throughout, there is inconsistent titling of emperors, with some being called emperor on their first mention and others not. I would suggest standardizing to "Emperor [X]", and including reign templates, such as: "Emperor [X] ( r. y–z)" on their first mention, and merely [X] afterwards.
I've fixed the more tedious bits (typos, grammar, duplicate links, duplicate refs, ref issues).
@ Graearms: That is all my suggestions; once the ref piece above is resolved, I will pass the review. A very neat little article; I shall hope to see it at FAC. Apologies again for the delay! Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 20:25, 28 July 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Iazyges: I should have fixed these issues in a few recent edits Graearms ( talk) 22:23, 28 July 2024 (UTC) reply
Great! Passing now. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 22:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC) reply

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.