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"For example, the Maori sounds T and Ng both correspond to K in Hawaiian"
I'd like to post a comparative arrays of phonems, but I found it in a book so I wonder if it's copyrighted. Apokrif 02:46, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)
No, I was referring to Krupa's book cited in the article. Apokrif 08:28, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
does what I wrote sound too much like original research? It's an amalgamated conclusion from reading a number of sources, but I'm not certain how to mention such inconsistencies, without it sounding amateurish... TShilo12 04:57, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
"There are a few indications that proto-Austronesian influence existed until quite recently in Polynesian linguistics"--I'm not sure what it could mean for a proto-language to influence one of its daughter languages. Could you elaborate? I also think the discussion of *kenanda et al. might be a little over-detailed for a general overview. Thanks for getting some work done on this page, though, TShilo12! Rodii 02:46, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
( I hope it will be understandable in english - sorry guys i'm french :) Interesting discussion. As fas as i know this double system of possession in "a" and "o" is relevant for all polynesian languages. I am sure of it for hawai'ian, tahitian, rapa nui, tuvaluan, wallisian, futunian, tongan, niuean and of course maori. I had some light doubts with samoan cause the Pratt grammar do not mention it but i found this article, so it seems to be the case too http://www2.ling.su.se/staff/niki/501ver-d.pdf (see page 43). Concerning polynesian outliers languages, I don't know if it exists for all of them but what is certain is that this is the case in faga uvea (Ouvea-Loyalty Islands). It would be interesting to check it for other languages. There would probably be a better explanation of it than the mere opposition between "alienable" and "inalienable", or "weak" and "strong". I don't feel myself to be able to do it (above all in english) but it would be interesting to dicuss upon it.
How far do we go? There is even no article whatsoever about, for example, ʻUvean and Futunan languages, yet the 'genealogical' language tree already makes separate entries for east and west for both of them. It only adds to the confusion. Would it not be wiser to leave such refinements out, at least for the moment being until there is an article about it? The writer of such an article can make refinments if needed. Perhaps it will then turn out that it are only dialectic variants. (When do you call a dialect another language, anyway?) -- Tauʻolunga 23:25, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
Tau'olunga, may I ask what is the basis for your edits to Components - which linguist's work are you following here in deciding where these outlier languages should be placed in relation to the other Polynesian languages for instance? I have restored the diagram you deleted by the way. Kahuroa 10:55, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
What about adding 'woman' to the list? Also an interesting word to show variations. to: fefine (dual:fafine), sa: fafine, rn: vie, ta: vahine, ra: vaʻine, nm:..., sm:..., mā: whahine, ha: wahine. Who knows the missing? -- Tauʻolunga 19:54, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
the *faf to *wah sound change only applies to Central Eastern Polynesian. Rapa Nui does not undergo *faf to *wah hence why I have deleted the entry vahine in the table since vahine is a borrowed word. Vi'e is considered to be the 'Rapa Nui' word for 'woman'. Maori rahi 11:11, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
The word for vahine in mangareva is "va'ine" not "vaine" (a lot of ancient and recent french/spanish sources don't write down glottal stops) Stefjourdan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.100.77.68 ( talk) 20:20, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
A suggestion has been made on the Talk:Maori language page that a table of greetings in various representative language might be a good way to give an idea of vocab and also to show relationships between the languages 11:34, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
I have added the cognate words from two outlier languages, Sikaiana and Takuu, and from the other member of the Tongic subgroup, Niuean. I've also added the words for parent from PN *matu?a which show the retention of the Proto-Polynesian glottal stop in Tongan and Easter Island (this is distinct from the glottal stop which arose in various languages later, eg in Samoan and in Hawaiian, independently, from Proto-Polynesian /k/, in Tahitian from /ŋ/ and in Rarotongan from /h/). Kahuroa 10:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Should we look at making this into a table that would convey the same information but take up less vertical screen space? Kahuroa 10:03, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
I question the validity of these statements:
The main article only seems to be relying on the data in the figure template found on the research page of the Database. However, the ABVD does have the data that the article claims it doesn't. Tongic and Nuclear Polynesian are included in the Classification search of the Database; Niuafo'ouan and Pukapuka are as well (See here).
In addition to this, Niuafo'ouan and Pukapuka are both classified as Samoic-Outlier Polynesian. The same kind of mistakes that I noticed were also found on the Hawaiian language article and the Eastern Polynesian languages article as well, which I have critiqued. A revision of the article should be made to mention these classification issues in regards to the Database. - Ano-User ( talk) 01:48, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm largely to blame for the undue weight given to the database. I've merged the Polynesian articles as part of an effort to return to mainstream sources. — kwami ( talk) 16:16, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
Sorry Teinesavaii. I took out your material quoting Buck's The Vikings of the Sunrise. It was first published in 1938 and linguistics has come a long way since then. It is not correct to say there is one Polynesian language with dialects in the various islands. Besides, the essentail similarities of the languages was already alluded to in the lead with the communalities comment further down. Kahuroa ( talk) 21:21, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
From the article:
This is simply wrong, if this is supposed to be a description of the Comparative Method. The Comparative Method was well established long before Swadesh introduced his flawed methodology and lists. His lists have the curious property, that the shorter they get, the more accurate results they seem to yield - one of the few examples where less evidence supplies more "accurate" results. This alone should be enough to make anyone suspicious. All the best. 85.220.22.139 ( talk) 17:01, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
The article was heavily edited by an author last April in a somewhat pov/OR fashion. [1] Thus we have "Returning to lexicostatistics, it must be emphasised that the method does not make the best possible use of its short word lists of 100 or 200 words" which even if correct (who says this?) is pov. The IP above points out another problem. The editor has added unsourced material elsewhere. Wilson's 'forthcoming' work was added and still shows up as forthcoming but needs to be checked. It's here. [2]. Again, " Wilson's new work brings the matter to the approximate limits of current data available, incorporating much data unknown to most other researchers." is clearly original research. I'm tempted just to remove everything added by this editor as frankly I don't trust it. Note that "Classifying the languages according to sporadic sound changes in the various languages, Marck (2000)<ref>Marck, Jeff (2000), ''Topics in Polynesian languages and culture history''. Canberra: Pacific Linguistics.</ref> broke up the Futunic group, and placed those languages outside the Samoic and Eastern Polynesian languages." was changed to "Marck, [1] in 2000, was able to offer some support for some aspects of Wilson's suggestion through comparisons of shared sporadic (irregular, unexpected) sound changes..." It looks to me as though is a relationship between the editor and Wilson which may have skewed the article and might explain what looks like OR and some of the language used. Dougweller ( talk) 10:16, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
References
Not sure if this is the right place to raise this, but why does the map show "Polynesian" (presumably NZ Maori) as only being spoken in (parts of) the North Island of Aotearoa/NZ?
There were/are some small differences in dialect, but the whole of Aotearoa was inhabited, if sparsely in parts, and everyone spoke essentially the same language.
Also, the map in the article on NZ Maori is quite different, but what is it supposed to mean? Conceivably it could indicate varying concentrations of Maori speakers, but there is another map showing that, and the distribution is quite different. A large chunk of the South Island is coloured just the same as Australia.. so maybe it is intended to differentiate dialects, with Kai Tahu being a variant of the dialect spoken on Bondi Beach.. or vice versa?
Sorry guys, but I think that those unfamiliar with the local situation will be even more confused than this non-expert. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wreader ( talk • contribs) 22:11, 29 November 2018 (UTC)