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I read this in another site of internet. "The Olympic Gods transformed Prokne into a swallow, Philomela into a nightingale (birds that remain silent except during spring) and Tereus into a flesh eating hawk." But the article says another thing. Who are right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.154.113.193 ( talk • contribs) 13:51, 5 September 2004
Related to the above note, the page for Hoopoe says that Terseus was turned into a hoopoe, but this page does not mention this as a possibility. Any thoughts? -- Chinawhitecotton 00:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
There is a problem with the etymology: Philomela is a transliteration and the claim about thousands of years of storytellers mistakenly attributing the origin as "lover of song" is based upon a single 19th century source. the "Mela" of Philomela comes from the greek character eta, not alpha. thus making the word correctly "song" not "sheep" or "fruit"
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:2008.01.0474:book=9:chapter=451&highlight=*filomh%2Flh — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Benjaminfreyart (
talk •
contribs)
21:58, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
From Encyclopedia Mythica [1]: "Before the chase could end, all three were turned into birds--Tereus into a hoopoe, Procne into a swallow, and Philomela into a nightingale. (Hence the nightingale is often called a "Philomel" in poetry.)"
This is consistent with what the Wikipedia article says: "The names 'Procne' and 'Philomela' are sometimes used in literature to refer to a nightingale, though only the latter is mythologically correct. Philomela can also be poetically abbreviated to 'Philomel.' "
See also the comment at the bottom of the Nightingale page [2] at the web site "The Birds of Shakespeare."
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.148.33.33 ( talk • contribs) 22:38, 15 April 2006
I'd agree. Philomela became the nightingale (according to Brewsters Dictionary of Phrase and Fable) and Procne became the swallow. (SallyQ)
You need to take a look at Sophocles' Electra, where quite a lot of time is spent talking about the "child-killing nightingale" (which can only be Procne). As to the swallow, it is not voiceless (as Hesiod knew - W&D 568), so it might be wise to search for a voiceless bird that might fit the bill, which the nightingale clearly doesn't. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.52.105 ( talk) 12:00, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
I suggest that Tereus, etc., article be merged with Philomela. AFAIK, Tereus himself is only notable for raping Philomela; he is otherwise unnotable, and giving him a separate article just results in repetition -- of course, calling the article Philomela makes the assumption that Philomela is the central character in the myth, and Procne, Tereus and Itlus secondary -- an assumption I myself share, and an assumption which can be supported by the literature, but which nonetheless others may disagree with -- and thus, maybe the title should be something like Philomela, Procne, Tereus and Itlus? For none of these deserve separate articles.
The useless repetition of separate articles also also results in incorrect statements being added. For example, the statement in Tereus that Philomela as the nightingale is mythologically incorrect. The truth of the matter, which the article Philomela correctly refers to, is that the mythological sources are inconsistent as to who becomes which bird, although without doubt the identification of Philomela with the nightingale has been the most productive in Western literature. However, if we had just merged the articles together, the incorrectness of the statement in Tereus would have been plainer, and it would likely have not survived so long. -- SJK 03:13, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
However, there should be redirects on all of the deleted articles to the Philomela if the merge takes place. I myself just looked up Itys and the information was usefull.
The result of the proposal was procedural close. -- BDD ( talk) 19:28, 20 December 2012 (UTC) ( non-admin closure)
Talk:Philomela (princess of Athens) → Philomela – the main article page was moved, but the associated talk page was not. the existing talk page Talk:Philomela will need to be deleted for the move. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:07, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Cerebellum ( talk · contribs) 04:46, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Hello! I will be reviewing this article. -- Cerebellum ( talk) 04:46, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Good job with this article! A delightful collection of allusions from a broad range of literature - I learned a lot. My main concern is that the reference style makes some of your statements look like original research. Here are a few issues I noticed:
I hate to nitpick such an impressive work of scholarship, but things that are obvious to you are not to me and other readers, so more references are needed to avoid the appearance of original research. Those are the only real problems I saw, though. The prose is good, the images are awesome, and the breadth of coverage is astounding. I'm placing the article on hold for seven days, and I'll promote as soon as those issues are fixed. -- Cerebellum ( talk) 05:24, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
considering that one of the basic points of the article—that the early sources did not make Philomela the nightingale and it's only a later association—is stated but then completely ignored by the rest of the article. Her role as the nightingale (lead) is not "generally depicted" in myth; it's only done so in modern retellings and allusions. The entire section on the appearance of the nightingale from Homer to Virgil is completely aside the point: they did not consider that bird to have any association with Philomela at all and this is an article on her, not nightingales in popular culture.
Even the statement of the basic truth is done badly: Ovid did not make Philomela the nightingale; he's just ambiguous concerning who became what. Moreover the article misstates that Since Ovid's Metamorphoses, it has been generally accepted that Procne was transformed into a nightingale, and Philomela into a swallow while the exact reverse is true.
Maybe things have changed over the past few years, but the current shape of the article isn't even uninformative. It's baldly incorrect and covering that up with misread, misquoted, or misinformed sources. — LlywelynII 00:09, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
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