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Ancient names for the Persian Gulf
Currently, the page makes a single reference to the usage of 'the Bitter Sea' by the 'Assyrians'. Setting aside that this is incredibly vague, it doesn't address the fact that the Sumerians and the early Semitic Mesopotamians called the Persian Gulf 'the Lower Sea'. This is the most common nomenclature in early Mesopotamian texts. The name contrasts the Persian Gulf with the Mediterranean, which the early Mesopotamians called 'the Upper Sea'. A thousand years later, in Neo-Assyrian tests, the Gulf is called 'the Eastern Sea'. This should be relevant to include, I think.
Should we replace the not-a-forum tag with a FAQ explaining the naming dispute and that the name "Arabian Gulf" won't be replaced in the article?
NotAGenious (
talk)
13:30, 6 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Ice Age exposure as land
Modern geography has shown that the global sea level during the ice age was over 400 feet (120 meters lower as recently as 8000 BC. This means that the entire Gulf was dry land, a continuation of the Tigris+Euphrates river valley. Little research to date has explored potential cities and settlements in this area, though it may well have been a far more important area of inhabitation than the well known ancient cities. This topic is worth mentioning.
Gar37bic (
talk)
14:53, 23 July 2023 (UTC)reply
@
DeCausa Hi, the OpenStreetMap map is interactive and zoomable and very well shows map of Persian Gulf. Why did you revert my edit? This map is different from all existing maps. I really believe that if you want to remove one of two maps, you should remove the jpg map and not the OpenStreetMap map.
It is very clear and even more clear than the jpg. All water borders are shown in this new map. Also islands of Persian Gulf are shown better and more clearly. These details only can be shown by OpenStreetMap.
Firstly, you increased the maps from one to 5 in the Infobox (only 4 of which worked with captions) which is way over the top and unnecessary. Secondly, the OpenStreetmap is unnecessary and inferior in comparison to the existing satellite image. The latter gives a good view of the geographic and oceanographic setting. It shows the nature of the surrounding terrain as well as shallow and deeper water, with excellent and clear detail of the coastline such as islands and inlets. A not insignificant factor is that it is aesthetically pleasing. TheOpenStreet map, on the other hand, is an unattractive and featureless slab of grey with irrelevant features such as the location of Riyadh and Shiraz. The coastline is unclear and crudely drawn. The body of water is featureless block of blue. It imparts little information about the Gulf other than its basic shape. The same is not true of the satellite map.
DeCausa (
talk)
18:07, 6 December 2023 (UTC)reply
@
DeCausa You are right that no more than 5 maps is allowed, but pushpin maps are overlapped when showing and only one of them is shown at any time, but we can ignore it totally by removing pushpin maps.
I really insist on displaying OpenStreetMap map.
Yes Persian Gulf is very beautiful from satellite! But we should only show this gulf, without any extra information. Existing satellite image has extra information in it:
Coulds are not necessary specially near Dubai there exists clouds
The color of waters is extra information
In my opinion, mountains of Iran is unrelevant to Persian Gulf too.
We only should show
Borders of gulf
Islands of gulf by name
Importand countries by name
Additionally, I really think that the details represented in OpenStreetMap are much more useful than the details represented from Seattleite. In fact, we should "model" this gulf. In modeling process, we do not need exact borders with full details. So inaccurate border lines as in OpenStreetMap is more useful than exact borders.
The open streetmaps are subjectively inferior when displayed in the infobox, and to make use of their features and details you have to click on them and exit Wikipedia to another site. This renders them not suitable for being included in the infobox at this scale.
Canterbury Tailtalk19:41, 6 December 2023 (UTC)reply
@
QuicoleJRSolid svg image has no any text. What OpenStreetMap adds is
metadata,
Name of Island is metadata of satellite image, (not shown in satallite)
Showing main roads with names are metadata and so on. (not shown in satallite)
Where is the border of Persian Gulf? Is it clear in satellite map? (not shown in satallite)
What is important and useful are these items.
I ask you:
Cloud over Dubai is useful to anyone? (shown in satallite)
A mountain in Iran is useful? (shown in satallite)
Snow over mountain is useful. (shown in satallite)
The metadata is not visible to most readers, as few of them will click on the map. The border is also not ambiguous since the Persian Gulf is a body of water, and therefore the coastline acts as the border.
QuicoleJR (
talk)
19:54, 6 December 2023 (UTC)reply
The information you're talking about is NOT visible in the infobox. Name of island, not visible in infobox. Main roads? Not visible in infobox. Border of Persian Gulf, seems to have been arbitrarily chosen in this map which is odd when there is no recognised boundary to it. In fact the labels in the infobox are confusing because they're illegible and cut off by the borders.
Canterbury Tailtalk19:57, 6 December 2023 (UTC)reply
As I know OpenMapStreet shows details of metadata maps based on the zoom number, for example, zoom number of 7 shows only 1 island and zoom 9 shows 5 or more islands etc. Perhaps we should change settings of OpenMapStreet to show more or less texts on early zooms. Some settings are required for that. But I really think that we should not use satellite image for Infobox of Persian Gulf. They are somehow deprecated for Infoboxes.
Hooman Mallahzadeh (
talk)
20:12, 6 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Hooman Mallahzadeh, what you say makes absolutely no sense. One cannot access the features you claim. It is a dull, pointless, ugly map that adds nothing and takes away information displayed in the satellite map. You are pushing these useless maps in multiple articles. I don't know what motivates you in doing this but you have literally found no one who agrees with you. You need to drop this.
DeCausa (
talk)
23:04, 6 December 2023 (UTC)reply