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Genetic Evidence for the Ancestry of Palestinians
Haplogroup J (Y-DNA)(previously known as HG9 or Eu9/Eu10) is one of more than 150 Haplogroups found in humans around the world. It is group of genes on the Y Male chromosome and represent a Paternal ancestry that originated in the Levant in the middle East 10000 years ago. Haplogroup J1 is a sub Haplogroup J found mainly in Arabs ( meaning people from Arabic countries including Palestinians have the highest percentage of this Haplogroup on their Y chromosomes in the world). The recently discovered genetic signature in J1 known as The Cohen Modal Haplotype found only in Jewish people of Cohenite ancestry ( ie the claimants to be descendents of Aaron among jews worldwide). J1 haplogroup became a marker of the Arab expansion in the early medieval period (Semino et al. 2004)[ [1]]. A genetic study by (Nebel et al. 2000) of Hadasa Hospital (Jerusalem University)[ [2]] found another signature in J1 termed the Modal Haplotype of the Galilee (MH Galilee) that is considered a marker of moslem Arab population in North Israel (Galilee). Later He and many reseachers found the same signature (MH Galilee) in several Arabic countries (NW Africa, the Southern Levant, and Yemen). A quote from the study by Nebel reads "The highest frequency of Eu10 (30%–62.5%) has been observed so far in various Moslem Arab populations in the Middle East (Semino et al. 2000; Nebel et al. 2001). The most frequent Eu10 microsatellite haplotype in NW Africans is identical to a modal haplotype (DYS19-14, DYS388-17, DYS390-23, DYS391-11, DYS392-11, DYS393-12) of Moslem Arabs who live in a small area in the north of Israel, the Galilee (Nebel et al. 2000). This haplotype, which is present in the Galilee at 18.5%, was termed the modal haplotype of the Galilee (MH Galilee) (Nebel et al. 2000). Notably, it is absent from two distinct non-Arab Middle Eastern populations, Jews and Muslim Kurds, both of whom have significant Eu10 frequencies—18% and 12%, respectively (Nebel et al. 2001). Interestingly, this modal haplotype is also the most frequent haplotype (11 [~41%] of 27 individuals) in the population from the town of Sena, in Yemen (Thomas et al. 2000). Its single-step neighbor is the most common haplotype of the Yemeni Hadramaut sample (5 [~10%] of 49 chromosomes; Thomas et al. 2000). The presence of this particular modal haplotype at a significant frequency in three separate geographic locales (NW Africa, the Southern Levant, and Yemen) makes independent genetic-drift events unlikely." Palestinians have 39% of J1 second only to Beduins in Arabic countries.
I am pretty sure the above is not OR as Tewfik stated in a short edit summary, thus I have moved it to the talk page. I was reading through the sources provided and they mention explicitly the Palestinian Arab popluation, especially with regards to the Eu10 frequencies. It should be cut down because some of the contextual connections are not necessary, the author of the above is probably a professor/academic type who wants to describe the full academic context. Tewfik's accusations of OR seems completely out of place though. -- 64.230.120.196 18:56, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
It is OR because it does not actually support the hypothesis, but merely discusses general Arabian population expansion. If anything, a paper like this one would probably be much more relevant (by some of the same authors), though I am not sure in what context. Tewfik Talk 23:26, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure this article needs to be renamed. Judaism is, for example, a religion and not an ethnic group so since there was a small Palestinian Jewish population before first
aliyah, they would, in essence, constitute Jewish Palestinians/Arabs just as there are Muslim and Christian Arabs. Thus, in this manner everyone is a Palestinian, with Muslims making up the majority followed by Christians, Jews, Druze etc. Given the nature of how ethnic groups are perceived, it's pretty much redundant to call the article Palestinian Arabs as that is obvious. Even tiny minorities like Armenians generally speak Arabic (I've met a few from Jordan who were more at home with Arabic than Armenian for example). I think the article, as it exists seems okay to me.
Tombseye
03:54, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Haplogroup J1 ( Y-DNA) is the semetic ancestry (the only paternal semetic ancestry) ar verified in Wikipedia- [[Haplogroup J1 (Y-DNA). if you look on the Y haplogroups map you see J1 is highest in arabic countries, means its origin. For this reason the researchers who claim that Cohen Modal Haplotype ( marker of the descendents of Aaron) insist that only the CMH in J1 represent descent from Aaron ( descendent of Abraham father of the Arabs) J2 is a different ancestry that split from J2 10000 years ago, So Aaron or any given human being on the earth can be only from one haplogroup. Their insistance on J1 for their modal is because the Arabs have the highest of J1 in the world. Come that J1 is not the ancestry of Aaron, then this Cohen Modal Haplotype are non jews period ( ie not descendent from Aaron or Jacob or Abraham). Now, Bedoin of the Negev desert in Israel are descendents of Nabataeans, yet they have J1 THE highest in the world 82%, next in line the Palestinians ( 50%), this makes Palestinians Arabs. However the minor haplogroups found in Arabic countries including palestinians are markers for well known peoples ( markers of their own rights). Some of these nations live completely in arabic countries like Berber, some live disparesely in arabic countries (Kurds, Armenians, Checkess, Chechens, Turks, Anatolians, European turks ( Albanians, Bosnians, etc) To claim that these minor markers in the palestinians is outragous because these markers belong to different home lands ( Albanians have R1a1 for example its home is north of the black sea( people from north of the black sea are not known to be the ingiginous people of Palestine (!?) Hope this explains little. Adam
It has genetically been proven that ancestrally, the Palestinians descend from all the indigenous Semitic groups that have lived in Palestine for the past several millennia, including the Philistines, the Canaanites, the Hebrews themselves, and other groups. The Jews of Israel today are closer to the Palestinians then the Palestinians are to the people of Saudi Arabia. This should prove that just as the Iraqis descend from Arabized Assyrians and Babylonian, the Lebanese descend from Arabized Phoenicians and the Egyptians descend from Arabized Pharonic Egyptians and Greco-Romans, the Palestinians descend from Arabized Hebrews and Canaanites. This makes them very much indigenous to that country and have as much a right to it as the Israelis if not a stronger right. Ironically, there are groups of Jews such as the Beta Israel from Ethiopia and the Bene Menashe from northeast India who have no Semitic ancestry whatsoever, and yet live in Israel in perfect harmony with all rights, priveleges, etc. Bnei Menashe in particulary have settlement rights in the West Bank. If you ask me, the Palestinian peasant has full right over that land and the Bnei Menashe should just go back to his native hills in Northeast India, rather then settle on a claim that for all we know was partially concocted by British imperialists or made up by a tribal chieftain to gain favor with missionaries or some other religious-motivated reason. Afghan Historian 03:55, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
You said "if you ask me", well we didnt ask you... I suggest you read more about Wikipedia as this is not a free-for-all forum. -- Shamir1 05:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
-- J intela 04:27, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
There are several problems with the some new (and some old) edits on this page. First, is the "accent" ordeal.
The line regarding the Palestinian pronunciation of qaf as kaf is incorrectly written in the ancestry section. It appears to try to suggest that it is proof of a separate ethnicity. It is not. Syrians and Lebanese similarly use the kaf, as do many other Arab nationals. Secondly, the language beforehand in the land (Aramaic) has the same letter (qof) which makes the same noise. Also, none of that would prove anything anyway. Accents are regional. Does it prove that the residents of Long Island are a separate ethnic group because they replace "uh's" with "ur's" and vice-versa? Of course not. -- Shamir1 05:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Many edits are not based on sources, misrepresent the sources, or violate WP:NPOV. Some of them are stated as facts when they are opinion.
Other sources are used to suggest a point that is not suggested by the source. Other statements are written and are completely not even supported by the source given. This includes the History Channel source and Encarta.
As for the book quotes, they are opinions. The quotes given by James Frazer is not a historical account, it is his belief. When Christopher Columbus landed in America, he, and many others, said and truly believed that the inhabitants were Indians. Cortez even believed that a tribe he saw descended from "the House of Israel." Does that prove anything? No.
These are facts that need to be considered:
For more information see the sources given in the article. -- Shamir1 22:58, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Shamir1, STOP being ridiculuous! No history of Arabs before Islam.!!! What a funny statement... Who were the Nabateans?? who were the Ghassanids who ruled all the way from Damascus? Who were the Canaanites themselves???? Read below:
Encyclopedias and Ancient Arabia books mention the following:
4 Die Keilinschriften and das Alte Testament, p. 181.
These explanations are endorsed by Driver (Genesis,on Gen. x.). 6 See the relevant articles in Ency. Bib. and Cheyne's Genesis and Exodus. from about 4000 B.C. 1 a wave of Semitic migration poured out of Arabia, and flooded Babylonia certainly, and possibly, more or less, Syria and Palestine also. Also that between 2800 and 2600 B.C. a second wave from Arabia took the same course, covering not only Babylonia, but also Syria and Palestine and probably also Egypt (the Hyksos). It is soon after this that we meet with the great empire-builder and civilizer, Khammurabi (2267-2213), the first king of a united Babylonia. It is noteworthy that the first part of his name is identical with the name of the father of Canaan in Genesis (Ham or Kham), indicating his Arabian origin. 2 It was he, too, who restored the ancient supremacy of Babylonia over Syria and Palestine, and so prevented the Babylonizing of these countries from coming to an abrupt end. [5]
From Bernard Lewis book:
"According to this, Arabia was originally a land of great fertility and the first home of the Semitic peoples. Through the millennia it has been undergoing a process of steady desiccation, a drying up of wealth and waterways and a spread of the desert at the expense of the cultivable land. The declining productivity of the peninsula, together with the increase in the number of the inhabitants, led to a series of crises of overpopulation and consequently to a recurring cycle of invasions of the neighbouring countries by the Semitic peoples of the peninsula. It was these crises that carried the Assyrians, Aramaeans, Canaanites (including the Phoenicians and Hebrews), and finally the Arabs themselves into the Fertile Crescent."
From History Channel [6]:
"The earliest known events in Arabian history are migrations from the peninsula into neighboring areas. About 3500 bc, Semitic-speaking peoples of Arabian origin migrated into the valley of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers in Mesopotamia, supplanted the Sumerians, and became the Assyro-Babylonians. Another group of Semites left Arabia about 2500 bc and settled along the eastern shore of the Mediterranean Sea; some of these migrants became the Amorites and Canaanites of later times."
From MSN Encarta [7]:
"The earliest known events in Arabian history are migrations from the peninsula into neighbouring areas. About 3500 bc, Semitic-speaking peoples of Arabian origin migrated into the valley of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers in Mesopotamia, supplanted the Sumerians, and became the Assyro-Babylonians (see Sumer). Another group of Semites left Arabia about 2500 bc and settled along the eastern shore of the Mediterranean Sea; some of these migrants became the Amorites and Canaanites of later times."
But turning Palestinians into Jews does not mean that they can have access to their own Palestinian Hebrew ancestors. On the contrary, it is precisely through Zionism’s appropriation of the history of the Palestinian Hebrews as the ancestors of the European-Jewsturned- anti-Semites that the Palestinian Arabs lose any connection to their Hebrew ancestry. While neighboring Egyptians, Jordanians, Lebanese, and Iraqis can narrate a national history that extends to the Pharaohs, the Nabateans, the Phoenicians, and the Babylonians, Palestinians cannot lay any national claims to Palestine’s past. As recent converts to landless Jewishness, they cannot access the past of a land colonized by anti-Semitic Hebraic Jews, nor can they claim ancestors uncovered by Zionism to be the Jews’ own exclusive progenitors. This is not so unlike the process through which the Hebrew prophets were abducted from the Jewish tradition into Christianity. It is, however, ironic, and particularly scandalous for Zionism, in this regard to find that a young David Ben Gurion had postulated in 1918 that it was indeed the Palestinian peasants who were the descendants of the Jews who had remained in Palestine, and that, despite the Islamic conquest, these peasants had held on to their Hebrew ancestors’ traditions, most obviously through maintaining the same names for their villages. Ben Gurion went so far as to assert that “in spite of much intermixing, the majority of the [Palestinian] fellahin in Western Palestine are unified in their external appearance and in their origin, and in their veins, without a doubt, flows much Jewish blood—from the Jewish peasants who in the days of the persecutions and terrible oppression had renounced their tradition and their people in order to maintain their attachment and loyalty to the land of the Jews.”
Almaqdisi
talk to me
04:21, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
I think this is a weasel and thus have marked it as such. My attempt at change was reverted. Lobbuss 08:47, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
It seems that someone working for the Israeli Ministry of Foreign affairs or perhaps a mere zealot keeps reverting changes.
1. The section about the genetic relationship between Arabs and Jews is irrelevant to this page. If that's your desperate attempt at proving, historically, that the land rightfully belongs to the Jews because of the claim that there doesn't seem to be a clear lineage of Palestinians from the beginning of the 700's A.D. to present day, then you're mistaken. This cheap trick is well known.
2. "Family" is different than “ancestry”. I don't know if that’s just a mistake made by someone with English as a second language or if it's another attempt at implying that Palestinians as a people are a new creation of the 20th century. That's racist and shameful. Last time I checked, Wikipedia was supposed to be neutral and balanced, not the mouthpiece of the Israeli government and radical fanatics.
3. The bit about relationships between Nazi Germany and Palestinian leadership is a bogus lie as I have never come across any such claim in all my research about Palestinian identity or Palestinian history for that matter. Whoever included that is desperately trying to smear the Palestinian leadership and the people of the time. It is cheap propaganda and I WILL not tolerate it.
4. Unless someone can post a reliable source countering all the points I have mentioned above (when I say reliable I mean no blogs, no ADL website quotes, no “my grandmother heard her neighbor say” sources) then I will go ahead and make the necessary changes.
5. Just because a few right wing Israeli nuts ganged up and decided to spread lies and half truths, doesn't mean that they will get away with it. I have friends on Wikipedia, as well.