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This page is about the Argentina administration during the Falklands war. Before the invasion, Argentina claimed the islands were part of Tierra del Fuego and governed by that administration. The direct Argentine administration of the islands was only established after the invasion. So to say "Recovery" would be incorrect. If you look at the Spanish version of the page, it does not say "Recovery". --
Philip Stevens (
talk)
08:12, 9 March 2010 (UTC)reply
If this article is really about the Argentine Administration as the infobox shows, then the article name should be "Malvinas, South GeorgiaS and the South Sandwich Islands Military governorship", you need to respect the original name. The current title reflects other story. Then, if again, we are talking about the government, was not liberation at all, would be more clearly called "FALL". And as you mention the spanish wiki, does not say liberation either--
Jor70 (
talk)
10:46, 9 March 2010 (UTC)reply
I named the article based on
WP:NAME which says titles should conform to the "names and terms most commonly used in reliable sources, and so most likely to be recognised, for the topic of the article." Most English speakers refer to the Argentine rule of the islands in 1982 as the 'Occupation of the Falkland Islands'. If you disagree with this rationale, you are more than welcome to
request a move to the title you suggested. I'd accept 'Fall' over 'Liberation' if it would keep the article's topic more consistent. --
Philip Stevens (
talk)
11:18, 9 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Occupation is clearly biased and reflects one side point of view, we should use something neutral such as 1982 Argentine Falklands Government. --
Jor70 (
talk)
11:32, 9 March 2010 (UTC)reply
The military occupation lasted Argentina in the Falklands between April 2, 1982 and June 14, 1982. The military government is something else, was established on April 3, 1982 and abolished in 1985. Remove interwiki generated confusion and attempts to modify the tab for the wiki article in Spanish addressing the government and not the occupation. Greetings.--
Cêsar (
talk)
00:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move. It's clear to me that there is no consensus to move the article to the suggested title although there does appear to be an emerging consensus to move it to something different. However this discussion has now had no input for a week so it seems sensible to close it. I'd suggest that interested parties agree a new title between them and then start a new requested move to that title.
Dpmuk (
talk)
10:02, 14 December 2010 (UTC)reply
I am unclear as to your rationale as that article does not document an occupation - unless you count the few days between Mestevier's arrival and his death in a mutiny (which I wouldn't - and in which case it would mean that your title is no less ambiguous than the current one). Pfainuktalk16:40, 28 November 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment As I mentioned in my message of last March there is a inconsistency between the title and the article itself. The title refers to occupation that someone could compare with
Occupation of Norway by Nazi Germany, where of course, there wasn't nor isn't a territorial dispute recognized by the UN. And then, the lead (obviously without MoS) and infobox is about the Argentine Military Government of the Falklands Islands which I still think it is the most appropriate title due is totally neutral. We could even add a also known as Ocuppation of the Falklands Islands then too . --
Jor70 (
talk)
22:08, 2 December 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment. Are you saying the islands weren't occupied in 1982? That's an interesting view of history. According to the Hague Conventions, "territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army" - I hardly think the islanders saw the Argentine military junta as a friendly force. This article documents Argentine rule of the islands in 1982. Most English speakers refer to this as the Occupation of the Falkland Islands, and thus the title conforms to
WP:NAME. --
Philip Stevens (
talk)
07:24, 3 December 2010 (UTC)reply
Could you please put aside for a minute your British POV and read again my comment with an open mind ? This article do not respects Manual of Style for a WP article. The current title only applies to the section 74 days all the rest is for an Argentine Military Government of the Falklands Islands, doesnt matter if is was legitime for some pleope or not. If you continue with this , I will split it --
Jor70 (
talk)
11:21, 3 December 2010 (UTC)reply
It's not 'British POV'. This article documents Argentine rule on the islands during the Falklands War, most English speakers refer to that time as the Occupation of the Falkland Islands.
As I said in March, if you disagree with this rationale, you are more than welcome to request a move to another title (once the current move request has been completed). You are also free to split the article if you want, but I think the scope of resulting pages would significantly overlap. --
Philip Stevens (
talk)
11:35, 3 December 2010 (UTC)reply
Perhaps in a future move request, change "Occupation" to "Argentine government". However, despite being long-term disputed territory, the junta's
human right's abuses pretty much makes their presence in any disputed territory as an occupation. Had their government been democratic, or at least shown anyone any level of respect, I'm not sure I would go for "Occupation" as the title, but the
National Reorganization Process was so abusive as to be an occupation of all of Argentina.
D O N D E groovilyTalk to me13:51, 3 December 2010 (UTC)reply
To correct you slightly, the events of 1833 are usually referred to as the British Return. We carefully avoided any terms that could be claimed as POV. Its frequently denounced as POV but pointedly no one has come up with a better suggestion. Justintalk14:59, 3 December 2010 (UTC)reply
Nobody has yet answered me the incosistency about the article content (infobox included) and the title, so I think we should go to a split. I still do not understand, because nobody answered me either what wrong with "Argentine military government of Falklands islands" ??? --
Jor70 (
talk)
16:34, 3 December 2010 (UTC)reply
There is no inconsistency, as Philip notes above it is even referred to as such in Argentine texts. I don't understand the problem here. There has been allegations of bias and POV but on examination they are found to have no substance. This is why I oppose this change and I think you'll agree I have a reputation for even handed treatment of this subject matter. Justintalk09:14, 6 December 2010 (UTC)reply
The incosistency is not just about POV ! is about the title and content!, see the infobox!. And the text Phillip show as argentine text referring it as ocupacion is actually describing the Aniversary of the landing (2 de abril!) and not the government! which, again, it is the incosistency here --
Jor70 (
talk)
22:48, 6 December 2010 (UTC)reply
I believe I see the distinction you're drawing. The title is Occupation of the Falkland Islands, which describes a period lasting from 2 April to 14 June 1982. The article has a rather longer remit - covering Argentina's military government of the islands, which lasted all the way from 1976 to 1985 (even if at the end of that period it wasn't actually governing anything).
One might reasonably draw parallels between this government and the Argentine Islas del Atlántico Surdepartment. According to Argentina, this is the official government of the Falklands, SGSSI, South Orkney and South Shetland Islands - but in practice it doesn't do much (it may even only exist on paper) because none of those territories are under Argentine control.
These are two distinct concepts, but there is considerable overlap. It makes sense for them to go in the same article, but if we're to do that it equally makes sense that we use a term that is more encompassing: that covers the entire period covered by the article - 1976-85 - and not just two months part-way through. As such, I personally would not object to a move to Argentine military government of the Falkland Islands, or something similar. Pfainuktalk23:27, 6 December 2010 (UTC)reply
Lightbulb! That title suggestion isn't the best one, since this includes South Georgia the South Sandwich Islands. That could make for a long title though. Would support a name change to something more suitable on that basis. Justintalk09:17, 7 December 2010 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Requested move II
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
I am open to shorter or otherwise more appropriate suggestions if they are available, but feel that a move to a name that better reflects the article's contents is desirable even if the name chosen is still not perfect. Note that the name I have suggested is an English translation of the official Spanish name for the body created by the Argentine junta to govern the Falklands in 1982 (and dissolved by the post-military government in 1985), Gobernación Militar de las Islas Malvinas, Georgias del Sur y Sandwich del Sur. Pfainuktalk17:23, 6 March 2011 (UTC)reply
Support "administration" probably shouldn't be capitalised. Is there a catch-all term for the Falklands, South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands? (
Hohum@)
00:56, 7 March 2011 (UTC)reply
Regretably not since the FI were split into a separate BOT. Previously the term Falkland Island Dependencies would have been applicable. Either way I rather suspect the use of British nomenclature would be problematic here.
Wee Curry Monstertalk12:38, 7 March 2011 (UTC)reply
Modern Argentina uses the term Islas del Atlántico Sur (South Atlantic Islands) as the name of the
department that comprises these islands (according to the Argentine POV), but I believe its use here would be anachronistic and may not be understood by Anglophone audiences. For the record, I do not object to the change in capitalisation. Pfainuktalk18:15, 7 March 2011 (UTC)reply
There is support for this move in this discussion; however I note the comments in the previous discussion in which it is argued that Occupation of the Falkland Islands is how the topic is commonly known in English. Google web and Google Books searches do support Occupation of the Falkland Islands. There is little for Military administration of the Falkland Islands. As the topic is known by the name Occupation of the Falkland Islands, and the proposed title is not used in English, I am not clear on the reasons for requesting the change. The stated reason is that the article covers more than the period of the occupation, yet the article clearly states that it is about the 74 days of the occupation, and then goes on to describe those 74 days. It does give some contextual background detail, though that is quite normal, and it is clear that the background detail is not the topic itself. I think a little more explanation would be worthwhile, and it would be useful to hear from some more people, especially some more of those who took part in the previous discussion. SilkTork *
YES!22:53, 8 April 2011 (UTC)reply
Yes I believe you did its actual content is wider, covering the nine years between the Argentine landing on Southern Thule in 1976 and the dissolution of the military administration by President Alfonsín in 1985. It is not an article about the 74 day administration of the FI.
Wee Curry Monstertalk23:12, 8 April 2011 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Am I reading the same article as the one discussed in the nomination? There is one sentence mentioning "the nine years between the Argentine landing on
Southern Thule in 1976 and the dissolution of the military administration by President Alfonsín in 1985". The vast majority of the article is about the 74 days, perfectly described by the current title. Why throw out the
common name for an
OR behemoth? —
AjaxSmack00:48, 11 April 2011 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Speculation on how the Argentine military might have behaved differently
"No wholesale confiscation of private property occurred during the occupation (all goods obtained from the Islanders were paid for), but had the Islanders refused to sell, the goods in question would have been taken anyway, as is normal in military situations." Since when is such speculation, especially when reported as a fact, encyclopedic material? --
Argymeg (
talk)
09:15, 24 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Probably because when some islanders refused to sell, the response was to point out that they would be taken anyway. Its not speculation reported as fact, happens to be a fact - it happened.
Wee Curry Monstertalk12:48, 24 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Okay I am having some trouble gaugeing this article as reliable simply due to the way it is worded. I mean every now and than something is written which seems a bit weighted to one PoV or another.
Example:
"Despite their political differences, the humanity and moral courage of both men earned them the enduring respect and even friendship of many islanders"
Humanity and moral courage? That does not seem very neutral or at least encyclopedic. Another example.
"Argentine officers did expropriate civilian property at Goose Green"
which is than followed by
"There was no widespread abuse of the population; indeed after the war it was found that even the Islanders' personal food supplies and stocks of alcohol were untouched"
The two lines contradict each other.
Last of all "the goods in question would have been taken anyway, as is normal in military situations." The goods were not taken away however, so this line is completely pointless and just seems like point scoring.
Mishka Shaw (
talk)
13:04, 5 December 2012 (UTC)reply
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About an edit today - Falklands/Malvinas. This has come up before elsewhere, but I'll mention it again here. These names are usually treated as translations of each other, which they are not. Some English language souces use "The Malvinas" as an English word, which it is. There is a Spanish word which is a translation of The Falklands into Spanish, which I think is also sometimes used by Spanish speakers. I do not think todays addition that I reversed relates directly to this but it is connected in some way. So, do we use the term Falklands, not because it is the English language term, but because it is the majority English language term, based on weighting? IMO a minor but important difference.
Roger 8 Roger (
talk)
18:43, 16 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Short description
The current short description is three times longer than the guidance of 40 characters. Long shortdescs tend to be truncated for mobile users, losing the addition detail. I trimmed it from:
"Argentine government of the Falklands, Georgias and Sandwich Islands during 1982 occupation, formally dissolved in 1985" to "Argentine government during 1982, formally dissolved 1985".
Since the short description works in conjunction with the article title, I thought this a useful compromise.
Possibly less likely to be confusing would be "under Argentine governance during 1982, formally dissolved 1985" (
Hohum@)
09:08, 10 March 2021 (UTC)reply
How about "Argentine administration during the Falklands War, formally dissolved 1985". I did note your attempt was in good faith but it proved to be rather misleading when I looked at it. WCMemail02:24, 13 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Description expanding request
Hello, I would like to expand the description in this article, for example: “The beginning of the war marked a historic moment in which British forces were able to reclaim the islands after a fierce battle against Argentinian forces. The war was a major turning point in modern British military history, as it demonstrated the country's ability to fight effectively against a foreign aggressor. The conflict also reinforced the United Kingdom's claim to the islands, which had been a source of contention for many years. In the end, the Falkland Islands remained under British control, and the war came to an end on 14 June 1982.” Please correct anything if not correct, Thanks!
SingusTheTexan (
talk)
20:38, 20 August 2023 (UTC)reply
I don't think your suggestion adds anything of relevance. See
wp:notability and
wp:OR. You must supply references for your additions, otherwise it is just your opinion, which can, and usually should, be reversed. For example, who said there was a 'fierce battle'? I suggest you take your time looking around wikipedia to see how it operates. See the links on your talk page as well.
Roger 8 Roger (
talk)
21:32, 20 August 2023 (UTC)reply