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The "fact" that "Hecht's claims... are not supported by documentation and are not regarded as serious by historians studying this period" is not neutral, and it is stll unclear who was correct. I changed it to be a bit less biased. Anyone want to comment? Can I leave it changed? — Gartogg 02:10, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
The "Palestine Remembered" link was removed, as it was a very sharp POV article, with a clear political agenda. —This unsigned comment was added by Ngileadi ( talk • contribs) 00:18, 7 April 2006.
The following link was removed: Livia Rokach: Israel's Sacred Terrorism: A Study Based on Moshe Sharett's Personal Diary and Other Documents (Belmont, Massachusetts: Association of Arab American University Graduates, 1980; Third Edition 1986), ISBN 0-937694-70-3. I think it should stay. — Babelfisch 03:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
This article implies that a car crash led to Sharett's appointment as Foriegn Minister of Israel. Here is the passage in question:
Sharret's sister Rivka, Dov Hoz's wife, died in a car crash in December of 1940 while driving to an Aviron board meeting. Also killed were Sharret's other sister, Tzvia Sharett, daughter, Tirza Hoz, and Hoz's business partner, Yitzhak Ben Yaacov.
Due to this experience, Moshe Sharett became the first Foreign Minister of Israel. His pivotal achievement was the 1949 Armistice Agreements, which ended official hostilities between Israel and the Arab states during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.
Sharett experts: is this true? If so, shouldn't we state exactly how it led to his appointment as Foriegn Minister? --( Mingus ah um 01:29, 18 April 2006 (UTC))
Livia Rokach's book is hardly scientific and Rokach herself is hardly a credible historian/political scientist. She's a journalist/culmnist with an agenda. Her findings are highly POV, and there are other books - published by political scientists or historians - that cast light on Sharet and his period, for example, Gabriel Sheffer's "Moshe Sharett : Biography of a Political Moderate" or his own books. As always, I am willing to discuss my position here. Karpada 11:56, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
User:Babelfisch keeps inserting the following link into the article:
with the justification "every quote is properly sourced. No need to censor critical links." Aside from the policy-violating use of the term "censor", there are a number of issues with the site itself. To begin with, it is obviously highly propagandistic and arguably extremist, referring to itself as "The Home of All Ethnically Cleansed Palestinians". In addition, it appears to be the personal website of an unknown individual, who resides at "P.O. Box 59067, Schaumburg, IL". It contains clearly factually incorrect information; for example, it states "Based on this [United Nations General Assembly resolution 194], every single refugee has the right to go back to his or her home, and to be compensated for any loss of their properties, pain, and suffering." Not only does UNGA 194 not state this, but in any event UNGA resolutions are not binding and do not confer any "rights" under international law. It's clearly a non-encyclopedic link of the type WP:EL says should be avoided. Critical links are desirable, but let's try to find high, or even moderate-quality critical links. Jayjg (talk) 15:35, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
No, it's an non-encyclopedic link issue; please desist from using that policy-violating term. Links don't have to be neutral, of course! It's quite difficult to find neutral links on many subjects. However, the links given are at least encyclopedic; they're reasonably well-written, not extremist, and you know who their authors are. For example, the Jewish Virtual Library's publisher, The American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise (AICE), "was established in 1993 as a nonprofit 501(c)(3), nonpartisan organization to strengthen the U.S.-Israel relationship by emphasizing the fundamentals of the alliance — the values our nations share." On the other hand, palestineremembered site is a personal website of unknown provenance that operates out of a P.O. box, and contains "factually inaccurate material or unverified original research, as detailed in Wikipedia:Reliable sources" - something to be avoided, according to WP:EL. Oh, and the quote I gave is from the website's "Mission Statement". Jayjg (talk) 23:37, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I specifically mentioned one of the points listed under Links normally to be avoided in WP:EL that palestineremembered.com violates. In addition, personal websites of unknown provenance are inherently un-reliable. Finally, I haven't threatened to ban you, I've just pointed out that continually violating WP:CIVIL over a content disagreement is a bad idea, and you should stop doing it. Jayjg (talk) 16:06, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
As I said above, it contains "factually inaccurate material or unverified original research, as detailed in Wikipedia:Reliable sources". Jayjg (talk) 15:18, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
The website itself contains this material, therefore it is all suspect. It also fails under "Links to websites run by anonymous individuals." Jayjg (talk) 17:52, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
I was quoting from this version. All versions prohibit "factually inaccurate material or unverified original research". The source you are using doesn't qualify as a reliable source, and, in fact, is an anonymous personal website, and should be avoided. Jayjg (talk) 20:56, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Regardless of whether palestineremembered.com is a proper link or not, it has nothing to do with Moshe Sharet. It might be a source for "palestineremembered" issues (I'm guessing ol' villages), but obviously not a source for Moshe Sharet. If the site also mentioned something about choclate chip cookies, we wouldn't include it in Chocolate chip cookie article either. Off topic, based on this [1] it's obvious why this link should be removed from all other wikipedia articles too. Amoruso 00:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
In List of villages depopulated during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, we uncovered several major errors (but probably missed most of them). As you can tell, the entire list of Arab villages there is from Palestine Remembered. Therefore, Palestine Remembered can't even get it right in its own area of expertise. Why should we trust them on Moshe Sharett when he's a highly notable figure having countless publications about him? Having said that, I agree with JayJG that something taken from Palestine Remembered and written by an anonymous author, which is supposedly based on some secret uncovered documents, does not satisfy the requirements of WP:RS and therefore should not be used in the article. -- Ynhockey ( Talk) 14:32, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Nov. 6th, 2006
Can you be kind and point these errors in PalestineRemembered.com?
I see the discussion not discussing facts whatsoever? as if there is a campaign to present one point of view.
If there is errors in the page, or things are being quote out of context or factually wrong guys, plerase be kind to point them out?
By the way, Jayjg wrote that UNGA 194 does not call for Palestinian right of return, but failed to bring the exact quote? Also failed to explain why Israeli still refuses to honor it if it does not say so? FYI, parpagraph 11 of 194 states:
Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid or the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible. Instructs the Conciliation Commission to facilitate the repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the refugees and the payment of compensation, and to maintain close relations with the Director of the United Nations Relief for Palestine Refugees and, through him, with the appropriate organs and agencies of the United Nations.
For the full resolution click below http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/historicaldocuments/32.shtml
________________________________________________________________________________________ 2006.
As explained, it violates WP:EL. Please don't re-add links to that anonymous personal propaganda site again. Jayjg (talk) 07:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Nov. 6th, 2006
Hello Guys, this the person who add this link.
there is a documented proof here that people on this topic wanna goose out documented fact. The link to *
"David Ben-Gurion Quotes and Biography" contains the most comprehensive source about Ben Gurion on the internet. Each fact is documented by a source and page numbers.
So can you kindly point where rules are being violated?
It should be emphasized the PalestineRemembered.com is being used actively by tens if not hundreds of Wikipedia's articles.
The rules that you have pointed out VERY general and could be applicable to remove any link.
If the site provides different points of view BASED on facts that you can verify from the provided sources, then why that is propaganda? Let other people (especially on this board) judge?
There is a history here to show Ben-Gurion from one point of view, he is a lot more complex than that. I appeal for professionals conduct on this board. Things happen here with checks and balances.
_____
I wonder why are you so determined not to argue the fact? Why you have not argued about UNGA 194 and if it does or does not call for right of return? HMMMMMM!!! Do you have an agenda here??? Let me see if I understand you correctly. You are saying PalestineRememeberd.com is a propaganda and the Jewish Agency (whom you are allowing its links to be present) it is not? HAMMMMMM. Nice argument.
Now having a PO box or not having is a proof that a site is personal? or not credible? What about you? do you have a personal agend!!!!!!
Are you ganna be a link inspector at Wikipedia? and selectively brand the links that you do not like?
Sorry, but I have not seen this in the rules and regulations? Who makes you the judge the and jury?
Can Somebody please help out here?
This a typical argument of most Zionists. Let us not argue the facts, and it is better let attack the messenger????
Based on WHAT FACT in the associated link you dispute? I do not see a rational argument here.
Again I appeal for people with some sense of fairness to help this board. It is being hijacked by Zionist who wanna present only their point view. they want the whole world to see the world the way they see it.
Nov. 8th, 2006
I wonder why are you so determined not to argue the fact? Why you have not argued about UNGA 194 and if it does or does not call for right of return? HMMMMMM!!! Do you have an agenda here??? FYI, parpagraph 11 of 194 states: Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid or the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible. Instructs the Conciliation Commission to facilitate the repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the refugees and the payment of compensation, and to maintain close relations with the Director of the United Nations Relief for Palestine Refugees and, through him, with the appropriate organs and agencies of the United Nations.
May be once you explain who is behind the Jewish National Funds site (whom you link), may be it is time to explain who is behind? PalestineRemembered.com?
I don't fee the JA links should be taken? Points of view based on facts should be present? otherwise I would have taken the JA's links!!!
It seems you are scared to discuss the facts, I wonder what scares you?
Is PalestineRemembered.com telling the truth and that is why you are scared? PalestineRemembered.com presents the Palestinian point of view, and much of its research is BASED on declassified Israeli documents? I wonder why are you scared of the whole world knowing whom Moshe Sharett was? Why do you want the world to see this person the way you see it? if not can you kindly point that out?
Again PalestineRemembered.com is being from thousand of links on Wikipedia, why single it out now? Why are you so scared of the truth?
Can you argue the truth? You are scared. I have been trying to get you to argue the facts, and you avoid them. This unprofessional.
BTW, whom do u represent? Is the truth your objective or promoting the Zionist point of view?? HAMMM.
In his book "Perfidy", Ben Hecht claimed that Sharett purposely prevented Joel Brand, a member of the Jewish Agency's rescue commission, from saving an immediate 1,000,000 Hungarian Jews from certain annihilation.
Two questions.
1) Were there a million Jews in Hungary at the time?
2) What is an immediate Hungarian Jew?
Someone with knowledge of the issue might want to clarify.
Cheers Io ( talk) 16:48, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
that quote is Sharett describing Dayan's view, not Sharett's view, and in context, it is obvious that Sharett vehemently disagrees with Dayan. Bad Dryer ( talk)
Because this is obviously something you won't read everyday.-- Makeandtoss ( talk) 20:28, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
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