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I have attempted to bring together some recent, badly copy-pasted translations from
the Italian version of this article, and tried to fix a load of faulty Italian citations which were also pasted in at the same time. This has involved cleaning up irrelevant content and updating dead links. There are still quite a lot of unsupported Italian statements I don't like, so I make no apologies for over-templating this relatively sensitive subtopic with {{
cn}}
notes in the hope that editors might fill in the gaps with some good
reliable sources from both sides of this historic land dispute.
Nick Moyes (
talk)
10:41, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
What statements?!?!?!? What reliable resources?!?!!? Isn't 1832 Map of the Kingdom of Sardinia reliable? Don't you like it? What about the Sardinian Atlas map of 1869? You also don't like it so that's not reliable? You don't like because you want to assert there is no territorial dispute? Maybe you want to arbitrarily draw the line? Well you wouldn't be the first anyway, but I wonder if that's how things work.
I'm waiting for your explanation about what is reliable and what is not — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
95.249.7.224 (
talk)
13:40, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
"I'm waiting for your explanation about what is reliable and what is not", so my answer is to invite you now to please go and read Wikipedia:Reliable sources to help the learning process. Nick Moyes ( talk) 20:42, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
"Since 2017 Google Earth has used the maps of the Italian Istituto Geografico Militare and NATO." While I agree that having the border coincide with the watershed makes sense, I am afraid I do not see any link to NATO documents in the preceding statements; I am not even aware of NATO actually publishing maps.
As to Google Earth, now (September 2021) the disputed area is marked as... (surprise) disputed, i.e. with a red border.
Now, sources: the French Via Michelin at
https://www.viamichelin.fr/web/Cartes-plans/Carte_plan-France shows indeed Mont Blanc on the French/Italian border and so does the 1941 U.S. Army Map at
https://maps.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/italy_250k/; on the other hand, the French government website at
https://www.geoportail.gouv.fr/carte (official) shows it entirely in France; the French encyclopedia "Larousse" says it is "en France(...)près de la Frontière italienne", and even www.britannica.com says "The summit is in French territory."
Please note that, while I am an Italian by birth, it is a matter of supreme indifference to me who owns the summit - and as far as I have been able to ascertain in these days, the same seems to be true of all the people I happen to be acquainted with, be they Italian or French. Most of them had no idea that a dispute ever existed, despite having college education and frequently vacationing on either side of Mont Blanc.
Not to put too fine a point on it, we are talking of less than one square kilometer of rather annoyingly cold snow.
--
2.34.77.226 (
talk)
04:18, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
The only objective vision is to accept that there is two visions : one French and one Italian. There is a Committee gathering both parts regularly to talk about this. But everybody knows that the watershed comes with doubts as the Mont Blanc is not a rocky summit or a ridge, but an icy summit. So the argument of watershed also has its limits in this case. But it is not to Wikipedia to decide where is the frontier. And if we want to remain objective the only reality is that there is a conflict and two visions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.173.162.129 ( talk) 10:50, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
For more than a year, the article has claimed that Mont Blanc is the second-highest mountain in Europe. By what definition is this correct? I can't see that this is an established fact, in fact, well-known mountaineering lists such as Seven Second Summits and Seven Third Summits list Dykh-Tau and Shkhara as the second and third highest mountains in Europe. The Wikipedia article Boundaries_between_the_continents_of_Earth#Modern_definition states that a commonly accepted border between Europe and Asia follows the watershed of the Greater Caucasus, thus placing Dykh-Tau, Koshtan-Tau, Mount Kazbek well within Europe, and Shkhara and Janga on the border, all of which are much higher than Mont Blanc. Wikipedia's own List of European ultra-prominent peaks also list the most prominent of the aforementioned peaks as European. I'm therefore removing "second-highest" from the introduction. Mathias-S ( talk) 15:23, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
Summit is different from mountain. 87.20.185.160 ( talk) 07:41, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
Ownership of the summit area has long been a subject of historical dispute between the two countries.That is a valid point to make in a lead, and can be teased out further within the relevant section within article itself. Over-focussing on detail ownership of the summit area within the lead is not appropriate, and simply serves to detract from the broad overview that any WP:LEAD should give. Nick Moyes ( talk) 08:44, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
There are two sources supporting the following statement: "The record for the youngest person to climb Mont Blanc was set in 2009 by 10-year-old Asher Silver (UK)."
. One says youngest person; the other says youngest Briton. I suspect the latter is more likely to be correct, especially as
this Uk news source also states 'youngest Briton'. I can't find any official mountain-related sources to corroborate or contradict them.
Nick Moyes (
talk)
09:21, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
Will editors stop trying to expand the lead of this article to include detailed information on who claims what bits of the summit. I feel this information is overly detailed for the lead, though I appreciate many are wanting to add clarity in good faith. There is a whole section on Ownership, so just a brief mention of the issue being an area of longstanding dispute between France and Italy is all that the lead needs. i.e. Ownership of the summit area has long been a subject of dispute between France and Italy Anyone wanting further details can then read the appropriate section, so please work to improve that, and please don't expand again without further discussion and consensus here on the Talk page. Thanks, Nick Moyes ( talk) 19:07, 11 July 2022 (UTC)