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I've never seen it before, and therefore have no idea as to origin, copyright status etc. Anyone want to find a citation? –
EdC21:40, 17 May 2007 (UTC)reply
I made up my own two verses to explain Lady Jane Grey, that fit after 'Harrys twain and Ned the Lad':
Then there was a Lady Grey
She was queenie for a day
Lame, possibly, but it helped me remember where she fit in.
Contrary to one of the newer versions of the mnemonic, he's indicated his preference to be King George VII in honour of his grandfather. Also, he said he didn't want to sound like a dog. Regnal names are often different from actual first names. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
31.51.14.103 (
talk)
14:19, 5 February 2013 (UTC)reply
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Mnemonic verse of monarchs in England. Please take a moment to review
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This article is inadequately sourced. I have added a good source for the use in Forty Years On. Few of the other sources is up to Wikipedia's Reliable sources requirements, and much of the material is totally unsourced.
britannia.com was a an independent American website with articles about British travel and history.
[1]. I think it is marginally acceptable as a source.
This is an acceptable source for the Royal Houses mnemonic
"Horrible Histories- Rulers Song". 22 June 2011. Archived from the original on 3 July 2012 – via YouTube.
This is a YouTube page. The video itself is not available at archive.org, but it was presumably a clip from one of the
Horrible Histories TV programmes. The lyrics are transcribed in the YouTube notes. Both the video and the transcribed lyrics on this page are copyright violations that should not be linked to, per
WP:ELNEVER. We should not give the extended quote of copyrighted material, per
MOS:QUOTATIONS.
This appears to be a self-made video of a writer reciting his own work. It is ok as a source, but the author does not appear to be sufficiently noteworthy for this to be mentioned (there is no Wikipedia article on him).
Our only sources for the mnemonics for the monarchs are britannia.com and Forty Years On. While it is probable that there are several established variants, we have no way of knowing whether the alternative versions presented here were simply made up by the editors who added them, or (more charitably) whether they are poorly-remembered versions of what they heard in school or from their friends and relatives.
I propose that we only the give two versions for which we have sources, and delete all the other versions. The two versions we would give are slightly different, and giving both highlights that there may be other versions.
I have changed the article along the lines that I proposed. I did not quote the version in Forty Years On as it might his copyright. For example, he interpolates 'Then who' between Henry VI and Henry VII.
Verbcatcher (
talk)
03:19, 14 June 2019 (UTC)reply
The rhyme that begins "First William the Norman, Then William his son", goes back to at least March 1838, appearing in "Original Poetry" in the Evangelical Register at
p 110. It appears, in various forms, in
other books over a period of more than a century.
James500 (
talk)
00:42, 28 February 2021 (UTC)reply
As I was taught, slightly diferring from the one on this page with a TRUER rhyme for James I&VI and snappier (easier to learn) ending (edits to page version in capitals)
...Mary, Bessie, James THE VAIN,
Then Charlie, Charlie, James again...
Will. and Mary, Anna Gloria,
GEORGES FOUR, WILL, VICTORIA;
EDWARD, GEORGE AND EDWARD EIGHT,
GEORGE, NOW BESS IS HEAD OF STATE.
Dainamo (
talk)
10:20, 9 November 2020 (UTC)reply
I always learned it as:
...Mary, Lizzie, James the Vain,
Charlie, Charlie, James again
William and Mary, Ann o' Gloria,
Four Georges, William and Victoria
Edward Seven, Georgie Five,
Edward, George and Liz (alive)
I feel that this version scans the best out of any as the rest have some very jarring moments that make it flow quite poorly. Though of course, the final line of this version is now somewhat factually inaccurate.
194.74.187.27 (
talk)
10:55, 23 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I finally found
a legitimate site with the full lyrics of "A Rough Guide to the Royal Succession (It's just one damn King after another…)" ... and it is in no way a mnemonic verse, just a (rather splendid) long verse listing all the kings and queens from Cerdic and Ceolwulf to QE2. So it's irrelevant to this article, though an entertaining read. So I don't know where the short lines about the Anglo-Saxon kings, quoted in the now-deleted section, came from, but it wasn't from that verse as show in the CD booklet for the Kings Singers recording!
PamD19:13, 11 February 2024 (UTC)reply
@
PamD: well found, the King's Singers' song is totally different from the 'Ethels -wulf, -bald, -bert and -red' version. However, both lyrics look modern and are probably under copyright. We could mention 'A Rough Guide to the Royal Succession' in the 'Published versions' paragraph (without an extended quotation), but I think it is too remote from our topic.
Verbcatcher (
talk)
19:44, 11 February 2024 (UTC)reply
I've tweaked the article to include "other" verses, as neither the Horrible Histories song nor the King's Singers one is a variant of the main thing, nor a mnemonic, but just an annotated listing of the monarchs! Having tracked down the Drayton lyrics it seemed a pity not to link to them.
PamD20:07, 11 February 2024 (UTC)reply