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As the external links substantiate, Mike Young is a famous game designer with many credits, and his biography here is much in line with having notables like Greg Costikyan and Mike Pondsmith on wikipedia. At 7 published board games, a half dozen books, and guest appearances at Conventions for the past fifteen years, his contributions have been significant to the field of gaming and LARP in particular.
Further, the LARP community has recognized that he is one of the few LARP writers who has a subtantial enough body of published work to merit inclusion in wikipedia. In particular, several people have (independent of myself, the original entry's author) provided updates and information. This substantiates the claim that he is more than a 'local hero'.
Finally, the article was completely rewritten from the original that was deleted, following the advice of the deleter who asked it to provide more relevance and be more wikipedia-like.
I feel this is a stronger entry. The one issue that a person could make as an argument for deletion is whether LARP itself is a relevant area of gaming culture suitable for wikipedia. Therefore, before considering deletion, I request the editor to look up LARP and larp history on wikipedia to better familiarize themself with the topic. LARP is a subset of Roleplaying Games, which is itself a subset of Gaming. Given that the largest LARP publisher, White Wolf, just merged with the multi-million dollar MMORPG company that produces Eve, clearly the field of LARP is relevant to today's culture.
Finally, a procedural request. In reference to the 'speedy deletion, article already deleted', the previous 'speedy delete' did not respond to the 'hang on' request nor the talk entry, but deleted the page without substantiating why. That is what necessitated the page recreation. User:Sandy_freelance
My policy issue is that the article did not meet the General Criteria for speedy deletion and, of the article criteria, the only relevant would be #7 and that one specifically states that, if the assertion is controversial or the article previously tagged for deletion, speedy deletion should not be used. Since it clearly was controversial, the lack of discussion and speedy deletion seem inappropriate. As a newly registered user, though, I will read up on speedy deletion to better understand the history. Thanks for the tip on initiating a review! User:Sandy_freelance
Don't forget Mr. Young was named a LARP Guest of Honor at Origins in 2005. I would say that that is national recognition. User:gregcrowe
I'll make the same comment here that I did in another debate some months back. I think the issue hinges on whether or not Theatre-style live action role-playing is a meritous topic. While it is not the largest of the various forms of Live Roleplaying, it is certainly a significant one with dozens of outlets, forums, several major conventions, and a relatively large body of written literature. Mike Young has certainly been a principal contributor to this field, and has a number of works published in print, and numerous works online. I'm going to maintain that this is a small but significant area of arts/hobby endeavor. I am an independent artist with many reviews of my own in this field, and have not always seen eye to eye with Mr. Young nor agreed with him. However as a fellow artist, I cannot help but uphold the legitimacy and significance of his contributions, and feel that they merit inclusion. User:jgodean
To summarize some earlier points from the 'speedy deletion' review, ( [1]), the arguments for and against can be summarized by excerpting two comments:
versus
My argument for inclusion of this article is that LARP is a significant entertainment media and therefore publishers of note are of reference use in wikipedia.
So with the components of 'mass media influence', 'professional publishing', and 'world relevance', I put forth that LARP is not a fan culture but a significant activity (in terms of scope). Within that, I suggest that publication reach be a criteria for whether someone should be included in wikipedia. If these premises are acceptable, then Mike Young is one of the half-dozen people who likely should be in wikipedia for LARP.
(Digression: A typical RPG book would print and sell 2000 copies in the 1990s (citation: my own book, Miskatonic University from Chaosium) and 400 copies currently (citation: my co-authorship of 'Faery Tale' from Firefly Games). Forgive the annecdotal nature but both books are considered 'succesful' within the RPG community (as given by GPA discussion), so take this on faith for now. Book sales figures are generally not available within the RPG industry because they are privately held companies and the best numbers, in 'Comics & Gaming Retailer', relies on self-reporting by a handful of stores. Within this market, then, I would expect any wikipedia-suitable author to at least hit these benchmarks.)
And, for those interested in calibrating 'significant', my short list of other LARP individuals suitable for wikipedia would include, Brian David Phillips (archivist and editor of the refereed 'The Journal of Interactive Drama'), David Millians (GAMA's education director and editor of their Education and RPG newsletters), Mike Pohjola (organizer of Knudepunkt). Again, I'm applying the criteria of 'wide published reach' as well as 'authoritative source' to evaluate their significance.
So, recap: LARP is a significant industry and not just an activity. Mike Young is a significant designer and publisher within the industry. So I request this article be moved off AfD so we can get cracking on improving its quality and references, instead of debating AfD.
Addendum: I'm suggesting this entry with the Wikipedia:Notability criteria of "Published authors [...] who received multiple independent reviews of or awards for their work" and to some degree the Wikipedia:Notability_(academics) Criteria 1, 2 and 4. It'll take me a while to find published citations because most of the commentary on Mike Young's work has been in print journals (in particular, The Journal of Interactive Fantasy, Pyramid, Comic and Games Retailer, and Metagame.) Hunting down citations will take time but will be done.
User:Sandy freelance I noted it had been marked Dec08 with a Notability query. Rather than reiterate the entire previous debate, I removed that notice. The list of 'Role-playing game designers' and 'Live action role-playing game designers' (that this page is categorized under) does not list every small publisher, but only the most notable. I have added edits to substantiate the notability, but would prefer not to re-raise the entire debate over whether RPGing is noteworthy itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sandy freelance ( talk • contribs) 19:11, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
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