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This on 7 June added the Environmentalism (eco-memes) section.
I think the section is out of place. The article is an attempt to explain what is meant by "meme", with some reference to how the concept has been developed and applied. The eco memes section is based on a book which describes memes in a section about how to influence people. The book does not appear to use "meme" in any academic sense (it's not commenting on whether the concept is valid; it's not using the concept for any explanation).
Three references are given. A note has been aded to the first two (GM crops and Earth pledge) to point out that they do not mention "meme". The third reference (chapter 16 of online book) includes the suggestion that Eco-Memes would be useful to promote better environmental behavior.
If the section is kept (I would be quite happy to see it removed), I think it should be significantly trimmed, and the first two references omitted. Any thoughts? Johnuniq ( talk) 01:34, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
-- Agree, this section is not NPOV, and does not support a distinction between 'eco-memes' and 'memes'. all in all it seems arbitrary and not relevant to this article 83.108.205.27 ( talk) 02:31, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I see most of these article does not make clearly that this is purely a theory, but the term is being bandied about as if it is fact.-- MacRusgail ( talk) 21:03, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Um, ideas are transmitted by language, body language, non-responisivness etc. The idea that they are transmitted by minds is purely hypothetical. You may be using this to mean that all ideas come from the human mind, but this is not agreed upon to any degree as the article on qualia makes clear. We have essentially no scientific understanding as to how the human mind actually works beyond the facts of chemical interactions or electrical impulses. Besides which you say "'meme' is a label we put on ideas that are communicated between minds" the article itself says "A meme is a postulated unit of cultural ideas, symbols or practices, which can be transmitted from one mind to another through speech, gestures, rituals or other imitatable phenomena." This is close to what is generally accepted but much more complicated than your own definition, which is simply the idea that we transmit thought to some degree. The actual idea of memes that Dawkins puts forth is actally very controversial in and of itself, as the article on qualia shows there isn't even basic agreement on the nature of, or whether we actally possess, a conciousness per se. But even stating that there is a general, non-philosophical acceptance of the transmission of ideas Dawkins postulates is still very controversial as he states there are units of cultural ideas. Whether there are cultural ideas itself is theory as is the question of whether said theoretical cultural ideas are transmitted by units, as is the question of whether they can be transmitted, either individually or culturally, through symbolism, as is whether they can be transmitted, either idividually or culturally, through ritual. Since this concept is clearly controversial I am following WK guidelines which state "Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations, and for any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, or the material may be removed". Therefore I am removing all material in the article without citations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.251.148.55 ( talk) 22:12, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to point out that meme and cream don't necessarily rhyme. The Hiberno-English article reads: "In some highly conservative varieties, words spelled with ea and pronounced with [iː] in RP are pronounced with [eː], for example meat, beat." I assume this extends to the cream, that meme is said to rhyme with. Granted, most nowaday forms of English don't differentiate between "long" e and ea, but as long as the difference lives on, i don't like the idea of ignoring those who speak that way. -- Leif Runenritzer ( talk) 18:49, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
It should be noted that substantive criticism has come from those who criticize neodarwinism and it's adherents generally. Richard Lewontin an evolutionary geneticist, Tim Ingold a cultural anthropologist, and Rod Swenson an ecologist, for example have all independently criticized the notion of memes or selectionist theories of culture in their books articles and acedemic papers. Respectively a few of these works are Lewontin - "The Price of Metaphor", Ingold - "The poverty of selectionism", Ingold - "The perception of the environment: essays on dwelling livlihood and skill", and Swenson - "Evolutionary Theory Developing: The Problem(s) With Darwin's Dangerous Idea". Typically a rejection of memes comes from a skepticism or rejection about the use of computational and information theoretic metaphors in biology, cognition, and culture which is often argued as (computational metaphors about mind or culture) a continuation or an extension of Cartesian dualism. -- DivisionByZer0 ( talk) 06:37, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Similar to the notion of cultural objects, we can associate the linguistic concept of an universal language made of primitive atomic definitions, such as Leibniz's characteristica universalis, and also proposed by Descartes for a lexicon of an universal language.-- Wcris ( talk) 16:45, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
The word Meme to mean a repetition of a prayer, in the manner of the Rosary, something being repeated in order that it cannot be forgotten, is used in 1920s Catholic theological texts, so how did Dawkins invent it? Did he have a time machine? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.242.83 ( talk • contribs) 11:21, 16 April 2010
This topic has been raised before so I have done a little searching to dispel any doubt:
Later I will edit the article to add a reference. Johnuniq ( talk) 05:17, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
At the time of writing, the article begins,
A meme is a unit of cultural ideas, symbols or practices
Does that actually mean anything? Can one have a unit of ideas? What does it mean, a unit of ideas? Is it legitimate to attempt to mathematise ideas by purporting that they can have a unit, as weight can have a unit, like a gram? It seems to me to be an illegitimate manoeuvre.
Is it being suggested that a unit of ideas (if such can exist) is the same as a unit of symbols (if that means anything), or the same as a unit of practices (if that means anything)? Does this make sense: 1 idea = 1 symbol = 1 practice? Or this: 23 ideas + 4 Symbols = 27 practices?
It is unclear to me that any of it makes a titter of sense. It smells of meaninglessness.
Does the word meme mean anything beyond such existing words as motif or trope? If the word meme is meaningful, and that is an open question, it is poorly served by the present attempted definition in this article.
The following sentence in the article tells us,
Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogues to genes
Is it proper to try to cross-apply a concept from biology to the field of culture, trampling blindly but buoyed by insensitive, can-do optimism over the great differences that exist between the two spheres? Does that not mangle meaning and lead to misdirected thinking?
I note with bittersweet amusement that this article is categorised under,
Dear me, poor old meme, only a C-Class philosophy of mind article. But wait, it is a high-importance psychology article! What can it all mean (does it mean anything)? I love the Philosophy of Mind Task Force. I wait breathlessly for the Hermeneutics Commando Attack Unit and the Epistemology Elite Assault Command Reserve, and other giddy Pythonisms. -- O'Dea ( talk) 11:34, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
I agree with the guy here. The sentence
A meme is a unit of cultural ideas, symbols or practices
is utter meaninglessness.
It's basically an attempt to make the topic sound intelligent when it's not. It's not in the spirit of science (though that's clearly the intention), which is to say thing as they are, with no nonsense. I came onto this discussion page to say that; I'm glad others agree with me. 86.41.77.237 ( talk) 23:13, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
"(The etymology of the term relates to the Greek word μιμητισμός (/mɪmetɪsmos/) for "something imitated".)[2] " μιμητισμός would be either /mɪme:tɪsmɔs/ in Ancient Greek or /mimitiz'mos/ in Modern Greek (preferred). I can't edit the article though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Meidei ( talk • contribs) 21:48, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
I think there need to be separate articles on "Meme" and "Memetics", but the parallel with "Gene" and "Genetics" is not, I feel, a correct one (it's a contested claim made by memetics advocates, who argue that memes literally exist as physical phenomena). I suggest that most of the Dawkins-inspired theorising goes to Memetics to avoid a content fork, while this page is shorter and deals with the use of "meme" in a variety of places (including Dawkins, but also the far less contested usage of the word as in "internet meme"). What this article calls "meme theory" is in fact memetics. VsevolodKrolikov ( talk) 05:13, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
It is my understanding that the original structure of wikipedia was to have a simple definition in the beginning to be followed by the in depth definition and back story. What I see here is that the beginning is so complicated by unnecessarily complex wording that the average person can make neither heads nor tails of it. We don't want to make wikipedia an encyclopedia for only the college educated. We want it for both the educated and the common man. Could we reword the beginning to make it more palatable? e.g. [ A meme... is a postulated memory-carried gene-like element for behavior imitation.] could more clearly be written [A meme ... is a memory that exhibits some behavior similar to genes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sack36 ( talk • contribs) 00:36, 18 December 2010
Very true, this whole article is one big waffle... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.196.104.6 ( talk) 17:31, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
"and such a reduction as failing to produce greater understanding of those ideas." And such a reduction as failing to produce? I can't make heads or tails of what that means. I suggest the person who wrote it rewrite it. GeneCallahan ( talk) 11:06, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
By the way, the fact that Godwin's "law" is being suggested as an instance of "applied memetic engineering" shows just how thin is the intellectual ice upon which this subject skates! GeneCallahan ( talk) 11:09, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
Examples, examples. This article desperately needs examples of memes. Examples are a powerful tool for helping people to understand, or at least form their own mental map of, concepts which are complex or vaguely defined. Memes appear to be a classically vague concept!
Perhaps some of the people who have written so much about memes in the article would like to add one or two examples of what they consider to be memes. With this the nature and extent of the world of memes would slowly become clearer to the rest of us.
I suggest that a new section, 'Examples of memes', be introduced near the top of the article (I would suggest between the current sections 'Concept' and 'Transmission'). It should not be long. Some 20 or 30 memes from different cultural areas should probably suffice.
Cricobr ( talk) 11:23, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
I changed the definition from:
to
the webster's dictionary definition. [2]
A unit of social information? What does that mean? unit of what? Talk about being so vague that the definition is meaningless. Only Wikipedia, only tehcnical pages are worse than word definition pages. Errectstapler ( talk) 22:02, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
The meme is phoney. There should not be an article on this pseudo-scientific rubbish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.194.200 ( talk) 15:40, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
The text recently added on John Gray ( diff) is a little undue. The criticism is fine, but an article should not include two long quotes unless the work is of great significance (and noted as such in reliable sources). If someone gets around to fixing it, the correct links are: John Gray and Straw Dogs. Johnuniq ( talk) 04:29, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
Why is the introductory paragraph, "A meme is an idea, behavior or style that spreads from person to person within a culture . . ." when the body of the article discusses meme as Dawkins coined it, which has nothing whatsoever to do with ideas or beliefs?
Maybe there should be a split, such as "meme (genetics) or meme (sociology). This article is clearly about meme (biology), not ideas. 174.3.161.217 ( talk) 06:35, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Only to fill a gap in utilitarians' perception, the meme was invented. How on earth is it possible for such useless art, to persist in a daily struggle for existence. Dawkins, stuck to English tradition, was of course far away from not putting bold question marks in it's many gaps, but behind the whole utilitarianism. Apart from anglo-saxon learnedness the meme theory is hard to understand, because the problems are missing for which it is trying to give answers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.192.108.109 ( talk) 10:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Please discuss the reasons for removing the sections, as "offending" is not a valid reason, Wikipedia does not censor information that may be considered "offensive". - Sudo Ghost 14:06, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
This section suffers particularly from the general problem on this page of confusing memes (a well-established name for ideas that spread quickly) with memetics, which is a fringe theory of how/why ideas and ideologies spread and develop. I suggest moving a lot of it to memetics as an example of people trying to employ memetics to analyse ideological development. That page is basically history plus criticism, without any illustration of people using it. VsevolodKrolikov ( talk) 03:23, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
I do not have the profound philosophical nor biological foundations authors clearly have and so I have to agree that this very sublime and immaterial subject urgently needs EXAMPLES of how people, rather than whales, have been trying to take advantage of this concept, and keeping one of Wikipedia Columns - the one of notability - as strong as possible even here, providing&supplying both the examples where the notion 'meme' worked properly and those when it failed.
I have commented on Set Theory the same way somme time aago - examples are vitaly necessary. Secondly, the transmission section, in fact critical for the practical use of the concept, may be a good thing to make the article less confusing if memes were moved to memetics. Moreover, we would add the hierarchical aspect to the information and this is always helpful when a human being (and maybe robots as well) wants to get things clear finding explantion in Wikipedia: let us not underestimate the crucial meanining of source-target one direction stream and its hierarchical features of how html works and it seems to have been working perfectly for wikipedia so far.
--
Capekm (
talk)
00:35, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Which simply proves the necessity to move parts into memetics. Considder people using Wikipedia worldwide who do not speak English as their mother language. There is little consolation saying we can have our Wiki in all languages of the world for the foundantions have been laid in English as should be as firm as possiblee.--
Capekm (
talk)
00:35, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
This is the citation to support whales being added as an animal that learn how to sing by imitating their parents or neighbor. I don't know how to do the citation in text though. http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2811%2900291-0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robotman666 ( talk • contribs) 04:02, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
well you are right and they are so hard to find at times -- Capekm ( talk) 00:35, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Hey guys, I was just reading over this article and thought the usage of the term 'better' in the passage "Thus "better" memes are selected" in the concept section is poor lexical choice. In this sense 'better' reflects more able to reproduce and spread, relative to a particular environment, which seems more precisely covered by the concept of fitness. 'Better' on the other hand, comes with a certain amount of conceptual baggage. It could conceivably relate to other qualities such as the extent to which the meme in question conforms to standards of proof, allows for a more accurate interpretation of events or processes or a closer correspondence to reality etc. though these are clearly at odds with the intended usage.
I am sorry if i sound like a pendant, but i do think the distinction is important and should be stressed at every opportunity. For example, within a context of inter-group conflict, memes relating to strong identification with in-group goals, biases in the positive perception of the behavior of ones group and hostility toward outsiders would seem to be out-compete memes emphasizing personal accountability, the tolerance of difference and the potential inter-group cooperation in the pursuit of shared goals to improve the situation. And yet aside from their capability to reproduce within this given environment, it is hard to argue that the more successful memes are 'better', especially as such memes see capable of generating increasing hostility, violence and barbaric behavior.
I haven't made the change, as I am a new contributor uninterested in unintentionally aggravating anyone
Skankenstein ( talk) 19:13, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Ummm... i fail to see how the distinction between fitness and better could be considered 'original research'or even a new concept. In fact, the following transmission section seems to outline the difference quite well. The example was intended for this page to illuminate the difference. Anyway, i will have a go at rewording the concept section in line with what i proposed, limiting myself to small changes in lexical choice aimed at removing loaded terms... 99.224.234.141 ( talk) 02:57, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
This very small section "Internet culture" (2 lines; a bit too small... however there is a link to a full page "Internet meme") has a little flaw which should be corrected as it seems to me rather weird and unprofessional (weird also that one can't correct this very secondary item directly and has to create a whole new discussion section for that, 10 times longer than the 2 lines which should be corrected ! so this is an opportunity to expand the subject here....)
(i) the 1st problem is the rather improper or misleading small reference to a USA-today article note n°39...
this rather inept and second class USA-Today's article has almost nothing to do with the subject of "Internet memes", except between brackets 14 words of a very quick definition, probably found in various dictionaries, of the word (Internet) "meme", words which are unhappily rather improperly quoted here, while on the other hand, one may think that ref. n°39 corresponds to the whole 2 lines of this § "Internet culture" and even worse and waste of time to a whole article about the subject of "Internet meme" (one will immediately understand my point in reading the following true full quote copied from this USA-Today's article about stupid products sold nowadays on eBay) (quote, USA-Today) ...they want to be the next Internet meme." (A meme is a concept, catchphrase or byword that spreads from person to person —in other words, such eBayers are hoping to invent the next mood ring or "Whassssssup")...(unquote, that's all there is about "meme" in this brief article !) At least one should just write the proper definition, and not more, in relation to ref. n°39 such as (my suggestion of a correction, in using the present sentence in the "meme" page; between [] extra comments):
Internet culture
Main article: Internet meme
The term "Internet meme" refers to (quote)"a concept, catchphrase or byword that spreads from person to person"(unquote) [then HERE put the ref. to ref. n°39 ...but is it really worth quoting -and advertising for- USA-Today for these 6 words which don't even mention the term "Internet" ?!] through Internet-based email, blogs, forums, Imageboards, social networking sites, instant messaging, video streaming sites, etc. [one can erase the reference to YouTube here, a company which doesn't deserve here any specific advertising !].
(ii) beyond these very minimalist corrections suggested here above, one (who would be allowed to write on this "meme" page !) should find a better reference, if ever need be, than this USA-Today page !, or a better definition. It would be in particular very interesting for a lot of people (it was the goal of my search in fact) to understand why and when exactly this same word "meme" originally a complex intellectual concept (and controversial as one can see with the protection of this page !) has flourished, often mispronounced, in the geek and social network cultures... Just quoting a 2007 sub-sentence from USA-today doesn't respond to any serious enquiry ! Wikipedia deserves better. However things might not even be so easy and simple... (i.e. the possible link between "Internet meme" and Dawkins'meme concept)... when one read the long and inflamed discussions at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Internet_meme !
(iii) beyond this beyond, it seems there could also be another, more obscure and complex dimension, far less superficial and possibly more interesting, to the "Internet culture" dimension describe here of the "meme" concept... but which curiously does not seem to be discussed or presented anywhere, except through 2-3 weird links found at the end of this "meme" page !? It appears -and came to my mind ...almost by chance- in following these curious links found at the end of the page, links which are obviously related to Internet -links on the present "meme" page in the § "See also" -: in particular one link leading to "viral marketing" and another to the book "Electronic revolution"... Someone put these links but however with no explanations or mention in the § Internet culture or anywhere else in the page (well maybe I didn't read carefully)... ?! Reciprocally the page concerning the book "The Electronic revolution" leads back in § "See also" to "meme" and "memetics" ...and also "tabula rasa" (a whole new and very interesting concept -i.e. not mentioned here in this "meme page", even it seems a concept also possibly related to Dawkins' "meme" concept apparently, at least through this reverse linkage !?) Well, this could open (our eyes to) a whole new field of investigations -or studies ?-, related to Dawkins' "meme" concept in relation to the study of the social impacts of mass media (and possible manipulation of masses and of cultures through the use of mass media, advertising -including Internet-... in using the "mimetic" aspect of the transmission of these mass cultures, ...possibly going back to Adorno & co., etc. etc.) well, it seems there is matter here, if ever not done yet -but it is, most probably- for a full PhD thesis, or serious book here, ...or at least on Wikipedia to a new large § concerning "meme" and "Internet" ...and not just a page about this superficial concept of "Internet meme" in use on the Web often wrongly pronounced and apparently created/used mainly by digital natives or computer geeks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cestmoicestmoi ( talk • contribs) 14:36, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
All paragraphs before
in the section Origins are bordering to WP:OR/ WP:SYNTH or outright so. AFAIK Dawkins invented the word "meme" to sound like gene, and all others, "mnemes" and such, are unrelated unless Dawkins says so. Rursus dixit. ( mbork3!) 22:15, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
I propose to add a sub-section titled "Archaeology of the meme metaphor". In chapter 11 of his book The Information: A History, a Theory, a Flood (2011), James Gleick shows that the description of information as a living organism was already in the air a few years before Dawkins coined the word meme. He cites this phrase from Jacques Monod, ″the Parisian biologist who shared the Nobel Prize for working out the role of messenger RNA in the transfer of genetic information″: ″Ideas have retained some of the properties of organisms. Like them, they tend to perpetuate their structure and to breed; they too can fuse, recombine, segregate their content; indeed they too can evolve, and in this evolution selection must surely play an important role.″ [1] In a somewhat looser way, language had already been compared to a virus a few years before, according to Kenneth Mondschein: ″Dawkins's insight was presaged by William S. Burroughs's observation that "language is a virus from outer space" [2]. In 1938, H.G. Wells described his revolutionary project of a world encyclopaedia as a living thing: "It can have at once the concentration of a craniate animal and the diffused vitality of an amoeba." [3] Codex26 ( talk) 07:36, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
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It should be respelled or pronounced to me-me or mimi
Mintteafresh1 ( talk) 22:57, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
If the spreading of memes or mimemes could be delegated to an Austin-Powers-inspired "Mini-Me", would that generate minimemes, minimimemes, minimememes, or minimemimemes? 89.144.192.225 ( talk) 21:35, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
I'm unsure as to how useful the "Potential lack of philosophical depth" section under criticisms is. The criticism is attributed only to a single author, Dieter Lohmar, who does not appear to be overly notable. It also strikes me as very much a pop-science rather than real science, though perhaps this is merely the way that it is rendered here and the original work presents its criticism more robustly. 203.173.33.126 ( talk) 15:49, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
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In the section about Internet culture, reddit.com should be added as an example, because it is a major source of most internet memes.
Nerfherder32 ( talk) 04:32, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
I suspect that the term meme has part of its origin in the term morpheme, which is a linguistic unit, a sound segment that has meaning. The root of morpheme is morph as in metamorphosis. That leaves the suspected suffix -eme, which may have become a quasi-generative suffix.( EnochBethany ( talk) 17:59, 23 September 2012 (UTC))
The most successful meme („Ideology“) of all times was perhaps „Jewish culture“, because all other cultures directly or indirectly depend of it: christians, muslims, protestants, capitalists, communists, Marxists, fascists, Nazis, Hollywood cinema, etc. etc. --- and no body has understood so far that he is just a slave of this silly 2000-year old Jewish tradition, because all “humans” are under the unconscious influence of these “jewish memes” (political correctness)! (Even the word “meme” may have been coined by a Jew) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.0.125.208 ( talk) 21:10, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
I have just now run across this article and must say that, after reading through it, I have only the vaguest notion of what a "meme" is. Perhaps this material is understandable and useful to professional sociologists or psychologists, but given Wikipedia's intended layperson audience, I think that the article could, and should, be made more understandable. For example, I did not notice any example of a "meme" in the article. Perhaps there is one that I missed, but there is certainly not one in the introduction. Examples are the main way that people learn new material. I say this based both on general knowledge and on five years of experience as a full-time, college-level educator. If anyone is in a position to add one or more examples of a "meme," then I think that doing so would make the article much improved. ChicagoDilettante ( talk) 22:45, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
Major examples from China: http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2012/12/19/the-top-10-chinese-internet-memes-of-2012/ — Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 16:06, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
Obviously meme and Zeitgeist are related terms. The Zeitgeist could be considered to be made up of the popular memes. Perhaps some (exalted) reliable SECONDary source has said so. A quick google brought up a number of sites that relate these terms, more or less. ( EnochBethany ( talk) 17:49, 23 September 2012 (UTC))
I've found refs from the 1990s: [5], [6], [7], [8], [9]. We can use them here and on the memetics article, since it looks like they don't use these refs yet. There's quite a lot of info that can be used to expand the article. - M0rphzone ( talk) 01:23, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
--- I'm not sure how helpful this will be, but near the end of the section headed, 'transmission:' "Researchers have observed memetic copying in just a few species on Earth, including hominids, dolphins and birds (that learn how to sing by imitating their parents or neighbors).[14]" it's cited (14) which i believe was from 1990 and is outdated at best and at worst nonsense. hominids and birds are not species. and there are a slew of species that are referred to as vocal mimics as well as other types of behavioral mimics. my point is the number of species transmitting memes are not to be counted as a "few." i'll find a good resource, but in the mean time, i think the previously quoted line should be deleted, as it would remove incorrect and/or old information and take nothing away from an excellent article that i assume is gaining views every day. 184.57.80.152 ( talk) 03:52, 31 January 2013 (UTC) 1/30/2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.57.80.152 ( talk) 03:49, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
On Twitter, @RichardDawkins commented today:
Regards, HaeB ( talk) 04:52, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
A picture of a meme is worth a thousand words about meme. Start with a good 'internet meme'. I'm good with suggestions and words, but not with finding the best internet meme and putting it in here. Suggestions? The cheerleaders from China gets a vote from me. [12] — Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 16:38, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
Huh, I'd always pronounced it 'me-me' on the basis that all the memes prevalent on the internet seem to be about getting attention, and thus "me! me!" You learn something every day. 92.7.83.115 ( talk) 16:57, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
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Legacy150 ( talk) 16:14, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Phrase: "As a factual criticism, Benitez-Bribiesca...": 'factual criticism'; perhaps 'In particular,"? Jamesthecat ( talk) 02:32, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
This has only one very short paragraph, outlining the history of the term. It needs an outline of the development of the theory, how it started, how it has developed, who has contributed to it, what books have been published, etc. Jamesthecat ( talk) 02:32, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
The table of contents is somewhat unsystematic.
Firstly, there's no need for a heading, then a single subheading containing all the content of the heading: "1 History 1.1 Origins".
Secondly, after the sections: "2 Concept 3 Transmission 4 Memes as discrete units 5 Evolutionary influences on memes 6 Memetics 7 Criticism of meme theory 7.1 Applications" are the sections: "8 Religion 9 Memetic explanations of racism 10 Architectural memes 11 Internet culture"
It would be better to have something along the lines of: 1 History 2 Concept 2.1 Outline 2.2 Transmission 3 Applications 3.1 Religion 3.2 Architecture 4 Proponents 5 Criticism
Jamesthecat ( talk) 03:15, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
"Dawkins used the term to refer to any cultural entity that an observer might consider a replicator." -not very clear Jamesthecat ( talk) 03:15, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
"Malcolm Gladwell wrote," "Adam McNamara has suggested"
-it is not clear who these people are. The reader could look them up, but it would then be outside the context of the peice. There needs to be a 'History of the Idea" section, with those reference outside of such a section mentioned in it, along with their relevance to the topic. Jamesthecat ( talk) 03:15, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
This is a good section, but flaps around a bit. It should begin with the motivation for discussing it, e.g. "Fred notes that the concept of the Meme has an assumption of cultural quantisation. He notes that a gene is a descrete unit, and this idea of culture being formed from such units is imported from genetics...", and then go on to outline the proponents and critics of such a position.
The section begins with a list of different definitions, and does not clarify how they developed, how the proponents argued for or against the different definitions, or again how the proponents fit into the scheme of the theory's development.
"The inability to pin an idea or cultural feature to quantifiable key units is widely acknowledged as a problem for memetics." -'widely acknowledged' by who? Jamesthecat ( talk) 03:15, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
This starts off well, as it begins with the idea's originator:
"Richard Dawkins noted..."
"Unlike genetic evolution, memetic evolution can show both Darwinian and Lamarckian traits." The section starts to loose referencing here. (Also, there are occasional Lamarkian traits in genetic evolution; hence the rise of 'epigenesis': this needs clarifying.) Jamesthecat ( talk) 03:15, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Despite what it says in the talk section, it might be worth merging the sections and simply focus on improving the one section.
"Fracchia and Lewontin regard memetics as reductionist and inadequate.[28]" It needs to be outlined why they think this. Jamesthecat ( talk) 03:15, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
This whole article veers towards original research; "*Quote from more artistic works themselves — books, films and popular media — for more direct examples to make it more easly comprehensible or illustrative, etc." might take it closer. Jamesthecat ( talk) 03:25, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
John D. Gottsch seems to have been born in about 1950. His qualifications are in ophthalmology. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.27.109.117 ( talk) 10:31, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Susan Blackmore does not mention atheist texts, such as those of Marx. In general, the whole article is just a lot of pseudo-scientific atheist drivel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.27.109.117 ( talk) 10:34, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Richard Wolfgang Semon seems to have committed suicide. He was an early exponent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.27.109.117 ( talk) 11:17, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
We received feedback on this page via OTRS, with the opinion that it is incomprehensible. To be honest, I can understand that opinion. Could somebody make it a bit more accessible? Jcb ( talk) 13:02, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
Aaron Lynch seems to have commited suicide in 2005. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.27.109.117 ( talk) 10:42, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Aaron Lynch's page here claims that he died: "from anoxic encephalopathy after taking an overdose of an opiate-based pain killer, described as an accident in the Coroner's Report." -- 209.6.54.239 ( talk) 12:40, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
The top-level sections of the article about racism memes, architectural memes and meme maps seem to be of questionable significance. I think this material should be condensed, summarized, demoted or removed. -- TylerTim ( talk) 20:16, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
"While the identification of memes as "units" conveys their nature to replicate as discrete, indivisible entities, it does not imply that thoughts somehow become quantized or that "atomic" ideas exist that cannot be dissected into smaller pieces."
That's all well and good, but atoms actually can be dissected, and not just into electrons and nucleons. Though, in the Standard Model of physics, electrons are truly elementary particles with no internal structure, both protons and neutrons are composite particles composed of elementary particles called quarks. 71.236.136.184 ( talk) 00:37, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
The "criticisms" section of this page seems unnecessarily feeble. Culture clearly exhibits cumulative adaptation as complex and old culture illustrates. Similarly "meme" was never a synonym for "concept" - since memes were always defined to be culturally transmitted. Most of the other critics seem similarly clueless. Perhaps the whole "Criticism of meme theory" section should be moved to the "memetics" page. If there's criticism here, perhaps it should be of the meme concept - not of the various theories which have been built on it. -- 209.6.54.239 ( talk) 01:20, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
I agree with the above anonymous user that the whole "Criticism of meme theory" section should be moved to the "memetics" page (and merged with the section there). ( Peter Ells ( talk) 03:12, 4 January 2014 (UTC))
The idea to move the criticism section of the article to Memetics is well-intentioned but I think not in the spirit of Wikipedia MOS, which requires that an article include all notable views, and not be slanted or biased. Most people unfamiliar with the science of this subject know only the term "meme" and not the term memetics. I even had to add it to the See Also list, as no one had ever done so -- even though it is mentioned inside the text of the main article and linked to there. To remove the criticism section would result in a large number of people being left with the incorrect perception that the concept of memes as analogous to germs has no criticism at all -- even if it existed on another article on Wikipedia they did not know to click on to learn the opposing views. One should not be given the false sense that memetic theory by Dawkins is settled science or settled philosophy. Genes and genetics are settled science. The analogy between memes and genes is not. It is a theory. Whether or not one sees the criticism section as feeble or not is subjective; the fact remains it is well-referenced, and there is no encyclopedic basis by which to move it to another article, when it definitely means what it says. It is cited criticisms of meme theory by reliable sources. I say it ought not be removed from this article, but kept. If anything, Memetics ought to be moved to Meme. Dazedbythebell ( talk) 16:24, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
This material was removed from the article, and placed here for discussion, because it is the result of a dispute at a journal during peer review. The manuscript that advanced the position was withdrawn, and it appears that the author has chosen to publish it here instead. Until the criticisms are properly published, it should not be included (as per the WP:NOR guideline). JTBurman ( talk) 13:50, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
It has also been argued that the misunderstanding that memes are " real" is a result of a popularization based on a confused interpretation of Dawkins' The Selfish Gene. According to Burman, the idea of an "infectious idea" was taken seriously only because of Hofstadter and Dennett’s re-presentation [4] of the original text. This supposedly new interpretation should be useful only if used under certain conditions. Dennett, according to this theory, regards memes only as a philosophical method, not as a scientific object. [5] [6] However, Dawkins did reify memes and consider them more than just a philosophical method; [7] Dennett also made it clear that neither he nor Dawkins considered memes only metaphorically; [8] and Blackmore's memes [9] are not more or less reified than Dawkins' characterisation of them as "physically residing in the brain". [10] Burman's late reification theory is therefore not supported by textual evidence. |
References
{{
citation}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
misunderstanding
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Humphrey
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).TEP
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).It's not a good idea to revert valuable information provided by an expert on the topic. It's completely irrelevant that this was presented on a blog. A blog written by a researcher is a reliable source, and MOS needs to be changed to take this into consideration. Until we find the same or similar info published by the same expert or others in sources preferred by MOS, this info is still much better sourced than most of what is in most Wikipedia articles. The comment "paragraph already talks about similar ideas" of the revert completely ignores the fact that the article does not mention more than a few other terms and that the removed blog links have detailed info about what terms were used when and by whom, which we definitely need to add to the article. -- Espoo ( talk) 18:40, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
To put a finer point on it, you're trying to say "this is good information, it just happens to be on a blog." (Are you a Finn? Is this your blog, by the way?) Wikipedia's guideline is "If the information was good, it would be found in a reliable source." Your argument is against Wikipedia's guidelines and your argument about ignore all rules is against consensus. A blog is not a reliable source, therefore the information is not good. Claiming it is good information is original research. Find this same information in an independent reliable source and we'll accept it. Chris Troutman ( talk) 12:46, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
The Tipping Point seems to deal with same idea yet there is not a link here to this book. can it be added? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.82.140.235 ( talk) 10:49, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
Seems to contain all the meaning of meme and is an earlier term. It should be in the article somewhere. I do not add it as there seems some stupid edit war going on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.191.188.167 ( talk) 02:53, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
Pity this article is edit-protected. I was about to add two more criticisms, so now I'm putting them here for discussion:
-- 84.180.255.151 ( talk) 12:52, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
The edit-protection should stay. It seems to me the main problem is general comprehension, and understanding of what the concept is offering. We attack what we do not understand (I think you will agree). Tylor defined culture, but he was not all that precise. This concept is offering a fundamental unit of culture, the meme, parallel to the phoneme or morpheme in linguistics, and many other fundamental units. I'm bringing in the anthropology box and adding this to it. Meanwhile, if comprehension is the fundamental problem, let's try to make it more comprehensible. I notice that in the last few years some groups of professional scholars have taken a hand on some WP articles. This looks like it is in that category. Naturally, being professionals they want to use a language only comprehensible to professionals. WP on the other hand is trying to make a generally comprehensible encyclopedia (which fascinates me). It seems to me the answer is not to attack the more erudite concepts and try to drive the professionals altogether away, but to make more comprehensible what they have done. This one is not all that hard to understand. We should resist the trashers on this one. Botteville ( talk) 09:42, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
on the grounds that ‘pseudoscience’ is a judgmental epithet; also it is, IMO, a very stigmatizing label. In this case, the epithet is wholly unjustified; memes are mainly culture, not pseudoscience.-- Solomonfromfinland ( talk) 05:10, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
The other uses disambiguation header seems to, unlike in other articles with such a header, not make clear about what kind of meme this article is that may be confused with others, most notably [Internet meme], I think the header should be expanded to reflect this. Jurryaany ( talk) 09:05, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
No criticism at all of the Meme concept? I think it has value and those who think it's pseudo science are misinformed, but there should be some mention of criticism, no? This is hardly an uncontroversial concept, but one would think the theory of evolution is more biologically controversial than the meme concept from looking at the two articles. This has been PeacefulEditor. Peace. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PeacefulEditor ( talk • contribs) 04:20, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
In my opinion, i believe this page should be protected permanently, due to the massive risk of trolling. 24.61.98.93 ( talk) 19:38, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
Doesn't the sentence "The word meme originated with Richard Dawkins' 1976 book The Selfish Gene. Dawkins's own position is somewhat ambiguous: he welcomed N. K. Humphrey's suggestion that memes should be considered as living structures..." contradict itself? If the word originated with Dawkins' book, how could he welcome someone else's suggestion in it?
In any case I would have to question the 1976 date, there is a line in 'Magic Corner' sung by Belita Woods in 1967 which refers to "Lover's memes" carved on an old oak tree (Which is why I'm here right now looking up what it means).-- Deke42 ( talk) 12:25, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
As my colleague N. K. Humphrey neatly summed up an earlier draft of this chapter:
'... memes should be regarded as living structures, not just metaphorically but technically.*'
A recent edit ( diff) by Mountain9 added the following text (the following uses straight quotes as recommended by MOS:CURLY):
Google offers this with what I think is the text of the reference.
The edit is not suitable for Wikipedia due to WP:NOR (no original research). It's a subtle point that takes time to digest, but the basic problem is that articles would be an unreliable mess if editors (that is, anyone on the internet) could quote some text from a work and then state that the text has some significance. Wikipedia requires a reliable secondary source to make a connection between what Huxley wrote and the topic of this article. Perhaps someone with a lot of knowledge of Huxley (hi Macdonald-ross!) would agree that Huxley was referring to the same concept as covered by memes, but that would not matter unless the opinion was published in a reliable source. I'll leave the edit for now, but it has to be removed unless a secondary source is available. Johnuniq ( talk) 00:17, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
References
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RileyDude ( talk) 05:16, 11 October 2016 (UTC) A meme (/ˈmiːm/ meem)[1] is "an idea, behavior, or style that spreads from person to person within a culture".[2] A meme acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols, or practices that can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals, or other imitable phenomena with a mimicked theme. Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogs to genes in that they self-replicate, mutate, and respond to selective pressures.[3]
Proponents theorize that memes are a viral phenomenon that may evolve by natural selection in a manner analogous to that of biological evolution. Memes do this through the processes of variation, mutation, competition, and inheritance, each of which influences a meme's reproductive success. Memes spread through the behavior that they generate in their hosts. Memes that propagate less prolifically may become extinct, while others may survive, spread, and (for better or for worse) mutate. Memes that replicate most effectively enjoy more success and some may replicate effectively even when they prove to be detrimental to the welfare of their hosts.[4]
A field of study called memetics[5] arose in the 1990s to explore the concepts and transmission of memes in terms of an evolutionary model. Criticism from a variety of fronts has challenged the notion that academic study can examine memes empirically. However, developments in neuroimaging may make the empirical study possible.[6] Some commentators in the social sciences question the idea that one can meaningfully categorize culture in terms of discrete units, and are especially critical of the biological nature of the theory's underpinnings.[7] Others have argued that this use of the term is the result of a misunderstanding of the original proposal.[8]
The word meme originated with Richard Dawkins' 1976 book The Selfish Gene. Dawkins's own position is somewhat ambiguous: he welcomed N. K. Humphrey's suggestion that "memes should be considered as living structures, not just metaphorically"[9] and proposed to regard memes as "physically residing in the brain".[10] Later, he argued that his original intentions, presumably before his approval of Humphrey's opinion, had been simpler.[11] At the New Directors' Showcase 2013 in Cannes, Dawkins' opinion on memetics was deliberately ambiguous.[12]
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A meme is a text based (Sometimes it does not need one) funny photo. It has a photo that people would recognize. The photo has names, such as: Bad Luck Brian, Doge, and Me Gusta http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/popular. It also sometimes has puns JJthewolfboy ( talk) 14:15, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
I have explicitly added Dawkins' name to Para 1, as coiner of the term, even though it is covered later under Origins, for two reasons: 1) since the coinage occurs in a particular book and can be ascribed to one individual, that should be mentioned in the opening section; 2) I linked to the article from an eBook reader while reading The Selfish Gene to confirm Dawkins' originating the term, was surprised by his name not being in the opening paras, and my ebook reader is not particularly friendly either to extensive scrolling or hyperlinks, a situation which must be not uncommon these days. BTW, I called it a "neologism" even though it has been in use for 40 years, as it is still not in very common usage, and was certainly a neologism when Dawkins coined it. D A Patriarche, BSc 06:50, 21 March 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by D A Patriarche ( talk • contribs)
Within the last several years, the sharing of videos and memes has increasingly become a large part of the actions that users take on social media. While websites such as Reddit can be a source for viewing memes, a popular way that many people engage with memes is on the social media platform of Instagram. On Instagram, there are many accounts that are dedicated solely to the sharing of memes. While anyone can create an account and post memes, there are many "popular" meme accounts such as @fuckjerry that have tens of thousands of followers who engage with the meme account daily. Instagram users have the ability to direct message these memes to other users, or to comment on the meme and tag other users in the photo in order to share the meme. Given the amount of times that Millennials spend engaging with memes on Instagram, I think a section of this page should explain the importance of Instagram to the dissemination of memes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uwildcat27 ( talk • contribs) 20:44, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
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The usefulness of the meme concept is currently subject to debate (ref: Simon, C., & Baum, W. M. (2012). Expelling the meme-ghost from the machine: an evolutionary explanation for the spread of cultural practices.) 2001:700:700:11:6450:C680:B708:1507 ( talk) 09:03, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
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Something should be written to correct the false notion that this word did not exist for decades in the daily usage of University of Chicago from the time of Leonard Bloomfield who coined it. It did. And in the specific form memes. I doubt that more could be said than that Dawkins altered the chief meaning, by putting it into a dubious context with Evolutionary Theory. And thus misleading the public in several ways. 169.229.11.164 ( talk) 22:52, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
This page is great, hands down, includes detailed information and loads of stuff that I didn't know about memes, probably my favourite page on wikipedia, keep up the good work!
~ from AquaPigg (・∀・ )
List all known memes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.165.83.100 ( talk) 16:06, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
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Grammar corrections. Some commas are missing Dumdum321 ( talk) 18:18, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
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memes are an internet things that do a funny 2A02:C7F:1418:A600:84BC:25D8:F320:6520 ( talk) 19:21, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
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I believe this article needs more images of "the modern meme" including video memes, or memes relating to everyday life, such as: evil kermit meme, pepe the frog, and other demonstrations of the younger generation's humor. Disneygeek ( talk) 01:41, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
How is a "meme" different from a “Critical Meme” (Ruiz)?
There is a difference between a meme and a critical meme. Some people just choose randomn/meaningless images and paste some words on top of it and call it a “meme”. One popular meme example is the following:
This meme doesn’t really say much other than, “Keep Calm and ________ (fill in the blank).” It doesn’t really prompt critical thinking, and it doesn’t really catch anyone’s eye in a critical manner, as it just asks one to “keep calm”, which means to accept a certain type of behavior because it promotes “calmness” and “normalcy”. It is merely advocating a certain type of behavior without provoking much thought about the action itself. It has been replicated over and over, and perhaps it shows some element about western culture, but it is not asking for deeper reflection upon a social issue. This is why this meme, in a nutshell, is not a “critical meme” because to be critical means to question. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Idruiz ( talk • contribs) 19:56, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
The recent edits by Chiswick Chap ( diff) added more speculation about origins (and duplicates "Although Dawkins invented the term 'meme'"). See Talk:Meme/Archive 5#Origins section dubious for a brief discussion where mneme and Laurent were mentioned in 2012. The Laurent source is speculation with an obviously false logical base—how can Laurent rationally produce a "more straightforward source for the term" than the author of The Selfish Gene? If Dawkins had not written the meme chapter, the stuff Laurent mentions would have remained unknown except to a few specialists. In essence, Laurent's assertion is that Dawkins was lying or deluded when he wrote about memes. Until a gold-plated source known to be reliable for this topic says otherwise, there is no reason to spread doubt about the very clear statements that Dawkins wrote. From the Endnotes, "In discussing memes in the final chapter I was trying to make the case for replicators in general, and to show that genes were not the only members of that important class." Does anyone have any information about what makes John Laurent a reliable source for this topic? Johnuniq ( talk) 09:52, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
Not sure whether it's vandalism, but he added the paragraph on top reading "Meme can also be identified by the symbol "[...]", also known as a "lenny face". See the above for more information." I think it's completely out of place, because "above" there's no reference to lenny face and there's nothing to back up this conjecture. Lenny face is also a very recent Internet meme itself and seems to be of no particular relevance in overall context of memes or memetics as a concept. I however can't revert it.— Preceding unsigned comment added by SianaGearz ( talk • contribs) 19:56, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
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The "Internet Culture" section of this article is short and vague, despite the Internet meme having the most impact on modern society. We need to add examples of Internet memes, especially the classic ones (for example: Grumpy Cat), and other ways memes spread, specifically on YouTube (like Pewdiepie's "Meme Review" series, which is so popular that Elon Musk was a host on it). Heartybrock ( talk) 16:44, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
Well, as a dank meme lord I myself happen to know quite a bit about meme culture. A meme can have many different interpretations and/or styles (such as wholesome memes, deep fried memes, surreal memes, dank memes). For example, you may see a meme such as "LeT'S gEt tHiS BrEd" vs. "i wAnNa kA-sHoOt mYsElF". The interesting thing about the 'meme' is that it can be anything related to a post on the Internet. It can be a really unhelpful coping mechanism, a way to laugh, or even just a way to relieve the stress of life, usually in a sarcastic/mocking/ironic way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Queen suvu ( talk • contribs) 20:54, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
To be more specific, a meme is not only text on a form of media (usually a picture), but any form of online post with a form of relability, irony, and/or comedy. Many Internet memes have developed with the help of Tik Tok (former name being Musical.ly), YouTube, and Twitter. There are also subreddits dedicated to the spread of memes and their humor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Heartybrock ( talk • contribs) 16:52, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
See Memology [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danlabs ( talk • contribs) 20:18, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
References
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Add https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/memology to article to describe the process of recording, understanding and etc of memes. Danlabs ( talk) 20:17, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
seem to be similar as are mentifacts - can links be added — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.249.7.24 ( talk) 08:49, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
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Memes have progressively gotten worse in quality over the years (obviously) 66.119.4.186 ( talk) 18:25, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
"meme" finds its root in ancient Greek, however its evocation of "similarity" comes from the French word which is spelled exactly the same (without the accent), "même": same Latin/ancient Greek root and meaning, although it isn't considered as the noun of an object like "meme" but rather an adjective/attribute. -- 173.206.165.197 ( talk) 17:00, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
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Please discard "Meme map" section entirely, it's really unnecessary and add nothing to the "Meme" wiki page. Vansh9 ( talk) 02:41, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
The definition in the WP:FIRSTSENTENCE of an idea, behavior, or style that spreads from person to person within a culture is a word-for-word copy from the M-W website definition. Is this considered a WP:COPYVIO, or fair use? If the latter, shouldn't it be in double quotes, at least? Mathglot ( talk) 10:34, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
A meme is usually associated with the internet in today's society and are very popular with platforms such as social media sites and online video websites — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:4888:E200:11D0:588F:17D4:33F0 ( talk) 18:43, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
A meme is definitely one of the harder concepts to define, but even so, the intro section does a really bad job communicating what exactly they are in modern usage. Having an example photo of an internet meme could be quite useful; any suggestions on one to use? Sdkb ( talk) 20:48, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
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Please gives examples other than "kilroy was here" in picture. UrBoiDankMeme ( talk) 00:18, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
Abhishek Gurung (aka drspider) is the father of memes. Dr.spiderr ( talk) 15:28, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
It seems a History section has been removed, or not been made. A 1921 example. Proper memes may require being copied, modified and re-circulated, and such examples could have been present before the term was coined. TGCP ( talk) 10:04, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Internet meme which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 03:51, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
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In the section shown above, the word "graffito" is hyperlinked to the Graffiti page instead of being hyperlinked to the Graffito page: /info/en/?search=Graffito_(archaeology) EffyJohn ( talk) 22:35, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for making this “wiki pedia” “page”. Now I can understand what my grandson keeps looking up on my “windows-computer” when he comes to stay. SkeletosAngelos ( talk) 14:57, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
I have not looked at this article for a few years. It has become overcomplicated to the point of being almost incomprehensible.
It's a simple concept, no need for it to be this complicated.
I wrote several of the early published articles.
Keith Henson ( talk) 04:43, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
I have a property with 100 sheep to keep the grass down and they are lambing at present. When lambs are first born, I can drive or walk up to them and pick them up. They do have some innate characteristics like wanting to be with mum because she feeds them. Later during lambing season, if I try to get close, mum runs and the lamb follows. By the end of the seasons, lambs will run like hell when I show up.
Isn't that the idea of a meme? There are even better examples but this was the easiest. Euc ( talk) 21:43, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
meme is a joke that is normally published on the internet trying to make people laugh sometimes they can go viral and spread to schools. memes normally have movie or game scenes in them having a text go from a troll face to sadness/depression some are so bad that their funny rarely there are good ones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.148.28.222 ( talk) 19:45, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
remove the term social science as that is nonsense, there is no such thing 2600:1700:6CC1:2A70:AC5E:875:E05E:BBDA ( talk) 13:03, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
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Most memes are caption memes. There is a need for the psychology behind what makes a meme. Nowdays, there are so many, that they all share a common trait:
Types of memes:
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add a link to "subreddits" to where it says subreddit where it says r/wallstreetbets Iambossofthegame ( talk) 13:55, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
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Heinz von Förster introduced the term "meme" in 1948 in his essay "The Memory. A Quantenphysical Investigation". In it he understood the "meme" as the "carrier of the memory features". In analogy to the view developed by Delbrück, Schrödinger and others, to interpret the "gene" as the carrier of hereditary characteristics, as the quantum state of a large molecule, he saw the "meme" as a micro-complex capable of various quantum states. [1] OHcr ( talk) 14:49, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
References
Arthur James Balfour treated the idea in his Gifford lectures of January and February 1904. In the written form, Theism and Humanism, he writes:
Is there not, you may ask, a "struggle for existence" between non-heritable acquirements which faintly resembles the biological struggle between individuals or species? Religious systems, political organisations, speculative creeds, industrial inventions, national policies, scientific generalisations, and (what specially concerns us now) ethical ideals, are in perpetual competition and conflict. Some maintain themselves or expand. These are, by definition, the "fit". Some wane or perish. These are, by definition, the "unfit". Here we find selection, survival, elimination; and, though we see them at work in quite other regions of reality than those explored by the student of organic evolution, the analogy between the two cases is obvious. (pp. 111-112).
The book is available at https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/57773 109.38.156.247 ( talk) 10:37, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
Places include: Ohio (2019-2023), Wyoming (1990s-2023), and many others. These hold significant value in the internet memes recently, and should atleast have an honorable mention. KingdomOfAgia ( talk) 03:08, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
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i need to add examples Ilikecatsyeet ( talk) 15:43, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
Ive written a long Article on the Website "Soybooru" a website for uploading "Soyjaks" and vice versa. I might need help as im not a native english speaker + add more info or Citations, etc. Here's the Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Soybooru Ayyyple2 ( talk) 22:31, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
Memes are apart of internet culture 2603:7080:C838:E536:C5E:C57D:F939:16B8 ( talk) 18:19, 22 September 2023 (UTC)