This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Creationism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Creationism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CreationismWikipedia:WikiProject CreationismTemplate:WikiProject CreationismCreationism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palaeontology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
palaeontology-related topics and create a standardized, informative, comprehensive and easy-to-use resource on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PalaeontologyWikipedia:WikiProject PalaeontologyTemplate:WikiProject PalaeontologyPalaeontology articles
Posters are not "scientific papers" in any substantial sense -- they are short written pieces set up in booths for conference attendees to browse. They are neither of substantial length/depth, nor do they receive any peer review. You could present a poster stating that the moon was made of green cheese, as long as you gave it a plausible title & wrapped the contents up in scientific-sounding jargon.
http://www.palass.org/modules.php?name=palaeo&sec=newsletter&page=25 does not state that posters are paper: it states "In what is ostensibly a scientific paper, Nelson and co-author argue...", where "ostensibly" means 'having the outward appearance of (rather than having the reality of)'.
The GSA also call Ontogenetic Depth as a Complexity Metric for the Cambrian Explosion a "poster"
[1]. It was only one of 39 posters in that session, and the conference had more than 20 such poster sessions.
[2][3]
As I have said, Intelligent Design And Young-Earth Creationism - Investigating Nested Hierarchies Of Philosophy And Belief was simply a 15 minute presentation as part of a forum on "Professional Issues",
[4] specifically the "History and Future of the Relationship Between the Geosciences and Religion: Litigation, Education, Reconciliation?"
[5] Ross' presentation was only one of 13 at this forum.
Posters presented at meetings of
reliable scientific organizations do not need to be "scientific papers" in a "substantial" sense in order to be included in a Selected Bibliography of a notable scientist, as here.
The GSA does call Ontogenetic Depth as a Complexity Metric for the Cambrian Explosion a paper right there at the top of the page.
[6]
Presentations and/or posters presented at meetings of
reliable scientific organizations do not need to be "substantive papers" in order to be "worthy of mention in a wikipedia article" -- or, as noted above, in order to be included in a Selected Bibliography of a notable scientist, as here.
Goo2you (
talk)
16:28, 16 January 2008 (UTC)reply
Your first statement is a bare assertion and thus worthless. I can equally claim "Posters presented at meetings of
reliable scientific organizations do need to be "scientific papers" in a "substantial" sense in order to be included in a Selected Bibliography of a notable scientist, as here." Either substantiate your assertions or don't waste my time by making them.
You stated, on the basis of
http://www.palass.org/modules.php?name=palaeo&sec=newsletter&page=25 that "The Society of Developmental Biology considers "posters" equivalent to 'scientific papers'" -- this is fallacious. "Ostensibly", as the examples in your citations indicate, means having a false appearance ("His ostensible purpose was charity, but his real goal was popularity", "had been ostensibly frank as to his purpose while really concealing it") -- i.e. something that is "ostensibly a scientific paper" is not really a scientific paper.
No, they only number it as a paper, they call it part of "Paleontology/Paleobotany (Posters) II".
[7]
Your last statement is likewise a bare assertion, and is as worthless as your first.
So, Goo2you, do you have any other
tendentious arguments to make? Perhaps you'd also like to include his high school science fair project (there's a good chance that it was organised under the umbrella of some "
reliable scientific organization")? Or can we leave off the trivia? HrafnTalkStalk18:09, 16 January 2008 (UTC)reply
I would further point out that we've been presented with no evidence that any of these insubstantial pieces have been formally published (e.g. as part of a conference anthology). While this, in and of itself would not necessarily preclude their inclusion in a well-maintained bibliography, it certainly lessens the weight given to inclusion. Overall, the inclusion of such ephemera would appear to violate the following clause in
WP:UNDUE: "An article should not give undue weight to any aspects of the subject, but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight appropriate to its significance to the subject." These are short, unpublished pieces, in two cases co-authored (rather than sole authored) and outside Ross's field of expertise (
vertebrate paleontology). Their weight is thus negligible, and a strong argument can thus be made for their exclusion. HrafnTalkStalk01:55, 17 January 2008 (UTC)reply
Hrafn, you are
tendentiously and
disruptively engaging in an
edit war - that is, "repeatedly revert[ing] content edits to [this] page" - by removing
well-citednon-controversialbibliographic references to a
notable academic's papers, posters, and presentations.
WP:TE notes, "There is guidance from ArbCom that removal of statements that are pertinent, sourced reliably, and written in a neutral style constitutes disruption.
[8] Instead of removing cited work, you should be questioning uncited information." As defined at
WP:DIS, you are repeatedly and unnecessarily reverting this BLP info "toward an end of exhausting the patience of productive rules-abiding editors on certain articles" -- namely, me on this one. Dispute regarding your editing at
Marcus R. Ross: Selected Bibliography has been noted
here. Please give notice there and here that you will be ceasing this behavior. Thank you.
Goo2you (
talk)
04:17, 17 January 2008 (UTC)reply
Going to have to agree with Hrafn's logic on this one. If we were to allow the inclusion of these posters for this particular guy, we would have to allow them in all other articles. But most importantly, please read the top of the section in question. Selected Bibliography, not Exhaustive Bibliography. The posters are not noteworthy enough to warrant inclusion.
Baegis (
talk)
05:30, 17 January 2008 (UTC)reply
Hrafn's logic is flawed. No one is calling for an exhaustive bibliography; but papers, posters and presentations at
RS scientific conferences are certainly notable and "noteworhty" enough to be included in this article.
Goo2you (
talk)
06:09, 17 January 2008 (UTC)reply
I have just modified one external link on
Marcus R. Ross. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
this tool.
I have just changed three links in the Selected Biography section. The old links were all malfunctioning. It took me some time and effort to locate the actual articles and presentations on the World Wide Web and find the functioning links, so please don't change them back!
Ingvar Åberge