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I am going to suggest here that this article is complete poppycock. john k ( talk) 05:51, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Okay, from what I can gather, this is a genuine rumor, but we are presenting it as though it is true. I will note that the fact that a baby has dark coloration at birth is no particular sign of African ancestry, and that the idea of Marie Thérèse, in particular, engaging in a sexual liaison with an African dwarf seems massively unlikely. And the idea that the child did not really die, but survived and became a nun, needs a lot more support than we have right now. john k ( talk) 14:08, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
This is a bad lemma. The sources are erroneously cited: Saint-Simon does not refer to the dwarf Nabo at all, nor does Mme de Montespan, nor does Voltaire.
The Nabo hypothesis is cited in the first paragraph of this lemma, as if all these memorialists would agree on this particular hypothesis. In fact, the Nabo hypothesis originates from Mlle de Montpensier alone. It has later been inflated by the (false) memorialist of Cardinal Dubois. The English texts in the external link, represented as translations of Saint Simon, are slightly incorrect, in the sense that some pieces of the original memoirs have been deleted in the translation, pieces that indicate that Saint-Simon didn't take the evidence very seriously (such as Ni l'une ni l'autre ne prenaient pas un soin direct de cette Mauresse qui pût se remarquer - neither one (the queen) or the other (Maintenon) noticeably took direct care of the Mooress).
There is no added value in citing Prof. Ivan van Sertima, as he knows nothing more than what is in these sources, and moreover, some scholars ( Glyn Daniel, in New York Times) call the work of this learned Professor "ignorant rubbish". May I recommend to replace the lemma by a translation of the more neutral French or Dutch articles. The current one is too much sensation-oriented.
Finally, Saint-Simon, Montespan, and Montpensier all had accounts to settle with Louis XIV. That may have motivated them to spread a nice piece of gossip. Riyadi ( talk) 19:46, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Verified article – removed accuracy dispute
I now cleaned out the article, and removed all sentences where sources have been twisted, especially Saint-Simon. The article is now in line with the French and Dutch Wikipedia. Sad that I had to remove Van Sertima's book, as it is an excellent example of how some incoherent gossip is dramatically blown up to historic proportions, and given credibility in order to prove a doubtful thesis (namely that black people have played an important role in history). Riyadi ( talk) 16:28, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
After several edits by other users, we're close to where we were at the very start: the incoherent gossip stories are again represented as if they were true, and irrelevant information (on the exhumation of the kings) has been added (suggesting that Louis XIV was black, or what is the intention). This is kind of vandalism. Riyadi ( talk) 22:12, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
The third and fourth paragraphs under the "Life" section still do not have citations to reliable sources as required by Wikipedia policy. Accordingly, I have removed them. DanJazzy ( talk) 21:38, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
This article has been obviously made from the French one. Please remove "especially the one of Louis XIII; but Louis XIV skin was black like ink." Because the French article removed it, it was a bit ridiculous to make a link between the skin color of the nun and the skin color of the dead king. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.168.223.232 ( talk) 11:23, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
No less than 6 writers from the time
is a bit exaggerated. Voltaire wrote quite some time after the events, and Cardinal Dubois did not write his own Mémoires (these ficticious Mémoires date from 1814). In the list of non-contemporaries, the duc de Luynes, who lived at the court of Louis XV, may be mentioned as well, as he has a very reasonable explanation for the provenance of the nun.
Riyadi (
talk)
09:49, 23 August 2016 (UTC)