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I think it should be mentioned that E*B is not a lorentzscalar, but rather a pseudoscalar. As well for the dual Fieldtensor G and the Levi-Civita-Symbol. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.176.230.49 ( talk • contribs)
Note: this usage of the term covariant should not be confused with the related concept of a covariant vector. What does this statement mean, exactly? -- Decumanus | Talk 06:46, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I don't think this is true. One can imagine a non-uniform universe in which Lorentz covariance is true.
Roadrunner 02:22, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
This article is quite impossible to understand unless you have a degree in physics. Couldn't we add something like "Imagine a volleyball match, where the ball contiuously moves between... " or something like that to all the "Due to the ambiguity and indifference of the Lorentz-Eintein-Buggyman co-ordinated octopus, the Buron and Woron particles behave similarly due to the incoprehensible... " type paragraphs? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.73.116 ( talk • contribs) 09:22, 23 June 2005 (UTC)
Addendum by another person: Suggestion on how to make this article better
Choose as the target audience a college freshman with exposure to the ideas of special relativity. Define very clearly (with a link) the notion of an *in*variant quantity like spacetime distance between two events. (The existing article starts off in this direction but...) Proceed to define *co*variance in that context. The important thing that is missing is the sense of how and why covariance is distinct from invariance. Include a technical definition but keep the target audience / comprehensible language requirement in mind. When done reading it, they should be able to say more than 'covariance is like invariance; but I can't tell you how it's different.'
Finally suggest providing a clear and specific example in a separate sub-section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.92.90.66 ( talk • contribs) 21:25, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I added a simple opening paragraph. The difference between "symmetry" and "covariance" still needs to be explained. Bhny ( talk) 16:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
I am convinced that such a (misleading) discussion of LQG, one particular theory that has problems with Lorentz covariance, much like with many other requirements, does not belong to the page about such an important topic as Lorentz invariance. It's not just my opinion, see also Prof. Sean Carroll, [1]. All the best, Lubos -- Lumidek 11:46, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
It would be nice if somebody could explain why gravity is exempted from this rule. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Megacz ( talk • contribs) 11:33, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
I quote from the article:
I'm fairly certain this isn't true on at least two accounts. Firstly, Lorentz covariance applies only to two different inertial frames of reference. And secondly, not all predictions are the same: even in Galilean relativity, we predict different values of kinetic energy in different reference frames. The situation is similar in special relativity: various physical quantities (energy, momentum, B-field etc) transform (note this is NOT the same!) as components of various spacetime vectors.
I will be more than happy to make the necessary changes, iff someone agrees with what I've had to say.
-- Masud 09:34, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
For somebody with a smattering of special relativity, it might help to list which quantities are or aren't Lorentz-covariant (not to mention which are Lorentz-invariant, e.g., rest energy and proper time). Examples: the FitzGerald ratio, momentum, velocity, distance, total energy, time, kinetic energy, 1 minus the FitzGerald ratio, time minus proper time, etc. (And if the quantities without Lorentz covariance fall into a few distinct classes of relationship to Lorentz transformations, that might be helpful to see, too.)
74.72.220.245 17:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC) Ben
Thank you. Yet, to quote Homer Simpson, "can't somebody else do it?" and once in a while he's right. I understand (thanks to an elementary text book) how proper time and rest energy are Lorentz-invariant. The FitzGerald ratio (proper time per time) is obviously not Lorentz-invariant since the denominator but not the numerator will vary for variously moving observers (but is it Lorentz-covariant?). I've gleaned from surfing the 'Net that momentum and total energy (rest energy plus linear energy) are Lorentz-covariant, and that kinetic energy (and more generally, I assume, linear energy) are not Lorentz-covariant (found this in some discussion mentioning KE's being a "pain" in GR). I'm pretty sure that oddities like tc-d and E/c - p aren't Lorentz-covariant since they're directional but not vector-additive. In short, plain statements about particular quantities and Lorentz covariance/invariance/other(s) are hard to find on the 'Net (which is a reason that I thought that this would be a good place for them). Anyway, I'd do it if I could but clearly such a list needs a worthier author.
74.72.220.245 18:04, 20 December 2006 (UTC) Ben
Given that the rule here seems to be to include the relevant equations, I can see the need for keeping the list short. Still, it would be nice if it could be stated whether quantities such as momentum, total energy, and kinetic energy are Lorenz-covariant. Anyway, thank you for carrying out my suggestion. The way that you relate scalars, vectors, and tensors is also good. One note: is it accurate to say that contracting any kinds of tensors together results in scalars, vectors, etc.? For instance, if the result is a magnitude associated with a direction but isn't vector-additive, is it really a vector? (Maybe this turns on the meaning of "contracting"?)
74.72.220.245 18:30, 22 December 2006 (UTC) Ben
Thanks, that's very helpful. "KE isn't Lorenz-covariant" is like saying "KE is neither a scalar invariant nor part of the relevant 4-vector (the 4-momentum) etc." I know that you want to keep the article short, but it seems like a good idea to include some compressed excerpt of what you've said here. Something like "Momentum and total energy by themselves are not covariant in S.R. It is really the 4-momentum's 4 quantities -- total energy (with a factor 1/c) and the three momentum components -- put together that become covariant."
The subject of what makes for physical meaning and physical importance might make for an interesting section in a general article on physical quantities.
Thanks again!
74.72.220.245 17:19, 23 December 2006 (UTC) Ben
"The article Superbradyon was nominated for deletion"
Why ? I see no serious argument for that. Wikipedia has published long articles on Lisi's paper, but a search at arxiv.org gives a different result. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.205.112.14 ( talk) 20:44, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
I wish to take issue with the following quote:
The laws of physics are exactly Lorentz covariant but this symmetry is spontaneously broken. In special relativistic theories, this leads to phonons, which are the Goldstone bosons. The phonons travel at LESS than the speed of light. In general relativistic theories, this leads to a massive graviton (note that this is different from massive gravity, which is Lorentz covariant) which travels at less than the speed of light (because the graviton devours the phonon).
The helicity of a graviton is ±2, and the helicity of a longitudinal phonon is 0. A massive graviton would be a spin-2 particle at rest. So, a massive graviton can only emerge if we also have a U(1) gauge boson with helicity ±1. I am taking the liberty of removing the devouring part.
Fizz2010 (
talk)
13:07, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Keep an eye out for discussion of this paper, it might well be something to include>
http://prd.aps.org/abstract/PRD/v83/i12/e121301 Constraints on Lorentz Invariance Violation using integral/IBIS observations of GRB041219A
One of the experimental tests of Lorentz invariance violation is to measure the helicity dependence of the propagation velocity of photons originating in distant cosmological obejcts. Using a recent determination of the distance of the gamma-ray burst GRB 041219A, for which a high degree of polarization is observed in the prompt emission, we are able to improve by four orders of magnitude the existing constraint on Lorentz invariance violation, arising from the phenomenon of vacuum birefringence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.108.206.235 ( talk) 19:57, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
What's a "Lorentz Tensor"? See the section by this name. This is not common nomenclature that I am aware. The designation is applied but not defined. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.168.21 ( talk) 18:47, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
While at one point in time it was common to define, e.g, vectors, tensors, densities, in terms of the transformation properties of their components, the modern perspective is to define them in terms of products of the tangent and cotangent bundles, and covering spaces of those products. This perspective exists not only in the literature of Mathematics but also the literature of Physics. It may be easier for the layman to understand a definition in terms of components, but there should at least be a note that the approach is dated. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul ( talk) 21:49, 13 June 2018 (UTC)