This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
List of loanwords in Malay article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I've taken a look at the list and it's a fair mess. While many of the word sources are credible, they would still need citations. Some of the origins claimed for the words are completely untenable and seem to be based on false cognates, false/folk etymology, or just mere speculation on the part of the editors.
Some examples include claiming a Portuguese origin for the word "pau" meaning steamed buns, or the word "pisau" allegedly being sourced from Mandarin; this is completely untrue. If this list needs to be taken seriously, each entry must include a reliable citation from trustworthy sources.
I will try and work on this sporadically, removing any etymological claims that I feel to be dubious, and inserting citations where I can find them. Help from the community (in particular linguists) would be very much appreciated. Yekshemesh ( talk) 08:44, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
I challenge the origin of the loan word 'ananas' for Malay nenas (english pineapple). The word ananas appears to be largely used in the world by more than a handful of languages include: Greek, French, Arabic, Bulgarian, Croatian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, German, Italian, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Russion, Swedish, Spanish. Therefore, it should not be considered fair to claim the word originated from Portuguese or Arabic. Must note that in Brazilian Portuguese, pineapples are called abacaxi.
Also, the word 'almari' is a variation of 'armoire' which is french later borrowed by english, but other languages also have a variation of this word. In greek, the equivalent is 'ermari'. It is more likely that the word is loaned by Portuguese than Tamil since their influence on Malay language predates Tamil. 65.204.193.30 ( talk) 14:27, 18 March 2009 (UTC)kl§
In portuguese, cupboard is armário. And Mango is Manga (much closer to the malay one).
Besides, your claim is wrong. In European Portuguese, abacaxi and ananás are two *different* (tough very similar) fruits, or rather two qualities of pineapple. The word in Spanish (ananas) was borrowed from Portuguese as probably were the words for all the other mentioned languages. The fruit is native from Brazil, so it must have been brought to Europe by the Portuguese (and not by the Swedish or Italians or Polish or whatever...). Moreover, the influence on Malay by the Portuguese was in the XVI century, at which time there was no European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.180.84 ( talk) 13:34, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
The List of loan words in Indonesian that are common to both standards should be merged here, with only specifically Indonesian terms remaining. — kwami ( talk) 01:26, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
The Malay word "benua" (= land, continent, country) isn't a loanword, because it already existed in Old Malay as "wanua". Refer to the transliteration of Kedukan Bukit Inscription, circa 7th century. This inscription is the oldest recorded writing of Old Malay, and the word "wanua" already existed to mean "country", in this case the country of Srivijaya. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.82.87.240 ( talk) 15:21, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
I removed the entry "gulai" from the list as there are no substantial evidence, if any, that the word is derived from Tamil. Although them meaning of the word "gulai" refers to a curry-like dish, the related word "gulaian" of the native languages of East Malaysia and the localized variety of Malay there is semantically different, as it means "(stir fried) vegetables". A quick internet search will confirm this.
On another note, from what I read in this talk page, a majority of users disagreed with the motion to merge this article with List of loan words in Indonesian. Therefore I feel that it is wise to remove all of the loanwords which are not used in the Malay language proper ( Malaysia, Brunei and Singapore. I'll try to do this in my free time. Datu Hulubalang Bincang 21:45, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
Update: It has been almost a year and not a single edit was made to remove native Malay ( Austronesian) words erroneously, probably as a result of original research listed here as loanwords. Therefore I will edit the article myself. Removed words include:
Barat west - native, not from Sanskrit/Hindi [1]
Buat do - native, not from Sanskrit/Hindi [2]
Kasihan (not kesian) pity - native, not from Mandarin [3]
Diam silent - native, not from Hokkien. c.f. kediaman [4]
Tali rope - native, not from Sanskrit/Tamil [5]
Mani semen - Arabic, not from Sanskrit [6]
Datu Hulubalang Bincang 16:36, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
References
Pau is not linked to the Portuguese's pao. How is it possible the chinese term for bun is derived from the portugese term for bread, when it has been a mainstay in China for more than a thousand years? Furthermore, the pau we see is definitely share alot more similarities with chinese buns that with any type of Portuguese bun, bread or cake. 17:37 24 February 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.156.152.209 ( talk)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on List of loanwords in Malay. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:20, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
The word "kasihan" is in fact comes from Malay word "kasih" (love - noun; also "to love" - verb) + a noun-building suffix "-an".
The word is also used to mean "someone" (the speaker) has a "love" (kasih) toward the spoken/meant/seen one.
As a proof, the word kasihan has been existing at least since 7th Century Srivijaya's Kota Kapur Inscription, dated 28 February 686 CE.
From 7th century Kota Kapur Inscription, written in Old Malay:
"Sarambat. kasihan. vacikarana.ityevamadi. janan muah ya sidha. pulan ka iya muah yan dosana vuatna jahat inan tathapi nivunuh yan sumpah talu muah ya mulam yam manu-"
The translation:
"saramwat (?), pekasih (love charm), force themself upon others, and many other things, may all that deed will not succeed and strike back to those whom guilty for that evil deeds; may all die because of curse. Also those whom spread evil rumors to sway people."
So, how come the word is falsely claimed as a word coming from Mandarin?
As for the word lancar, it is well-known as a word borrowed by Portuguese from Malay word "lancaran" ("lancar" - means 'swift' + "-an") as follows:
"Lancar" means "swift" or "fast", whereas "lancaran" (lancar + "-an" suffix) means "a kind of swift/fast boat (perahu)". Both words have existed at least before the influence of Portuguese words as proved by the existence of the same words (with same meanings) in "Sulalatus Salatin" (Sejarah Melayu) & other old Malay manuscripts.
References ("kasihan"):
References ("lancar"):
* [5], p. 189 * [6], p. launch * [7] - for the existence of the word "lancar" & "lancaran" in old Malay manuscripts as early as 1356 in "Sulalatus Salatin" (Sejarah Melayu) (revised/rewritten/recopied in 1612 and subsequently) * [8] - https://www.etymonline.com/word/launch * [9] p. 880 & 881 (for the words "lancar" & "lancaran")