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Bookku ( talk) 09:34, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Greetings,
This is basically continuation of first round of discussion which took place previously @ Talk:Islamic literature and Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)
An average tendency on Wikipedia seems to be of transforming word Muslim into Islam or Islamic wherever possible without visiting nuanced aspects. As a small example title Islamic feminism is nuanced and correct since it specifically refers to theory of Islam. But is it correct to redirect title Muslim women to Women in Islam those who are not exposed to nuances might think so. Some might take refuge to fallacy of Appeal to popularity, but nuanced view suggests otherwise. Pl. do read on below given copy pasted discussion from Talk:Islamic literature
Is present lack of nuanced approach, risks throwing in and enforcing a sided normative. All Islamic art can be called Muslim art, but whether all Muslim art can be called Islamic art. For example recently one Saira Khan recently openly declared of not being practicing Muslim, and still we can not list her in List of former Muslims so formally remains a Muslim at the most one can categories them in Cultural Muslim; take one more point, there can be former Muslim who reverts to Islam is it easy to classify their art Muslim or Islamic ? Or take example of M.F. Husain many of his drawings are of living things so whether it is safe to classify his art Muslim or Islamic ? :File:Khamseh Nizami 001.jpg is included in article Islamic Art how far it can be called Islamic Art or is it safer to call it Muslim art?
Those Wikipedians who do have lesser familiarity with Muslims or Islam usually tend to take position I/We don't have understanding on the topic, pl. go over to WP talk:WikiProject Islam, even when topic is critical of Islam that is categorized Islamic project pl. go over to WP talk:WikiProject Islam. Doesn't it risks throwing in and enforcing a sided normative?
One copyeditor user Dakinijones points out his difficulties @ Talk:Islamic literature, he says:
Similar points of grammar have been discussed @ Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous) similar to [3] their point is architecture, music, art, thought are not humans so saying Muslim architecture, Muslim music, Muslim art, Muslim thought, should be avoided.
Since personally I am more concerned with normative I am okay with Muslim architecture, Muslim music, Muslim art, Muslim thought since those are more inclusive terms in spite issues of grammar inaccuracies, but terms are understandable to human mind; my human brain can very well understand those terms as 'architecture/ music/ art/ thought created by Muslims.'
Please see below given table.
Muslim | Islam | Comment | |
---|---|---|---|
Muslim dietary laws | This needs to be Islamic dietary laws ? | ||
Apostasy in Islam | Article Former Muslim of Ex Muslim needs to exist separately because title Apostasy in Islam has Islamic normative that atheists don't share? | ||
Islamic culture | Needs to be Muslim culture? | ||
Islamic literature | Needs to be Muslim literature? | ||
Needs to be Muslim Golden Age ? | |||
Women in Islam | Need to be Muslim women? | ||
Islamophobia | Need to be Anti Muslim Sentiment? |
I am very well aware of grammar related points of Maproom & Louis P. Boog maintained by them and others @ Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous) and not too keen to break grammar related rules but want other readers also to be aware of issues involved for wider consultations. Bookku ( talk) 11:31, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
References
Thanks and warm regards
Bookku ( talk) 03:48, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
The article states that Akbar converted from Islam to a new religion, Din-i-Ilahi, but at the article of Din-i-Ilahi I found out that modern historians disagree as to whether it was a religion or a spiritual discipleship program. [1] Another point to be noted is that Akbar never renounced Islam, publicly or privately [2], which an ex-Muslim would certainly do. In view of this, I think it would be unreasonable to consider Akbar as an ex-Muslim and his name should be removed from the article. Uchiha Madara 17 ( talk) 10:49, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
4) In India one can find at least one example where in one individual openly declared he has not left Islam but follows Hinduism as his 'Akida' meaning belief, then there are many examples of Individuals who say they follow Islam but culturally Hindus again an extreme orthodox Muslim might call them apostate but again until those individuals officially say they renounced their religion for encyclopedic purposes they remain to be people in categories of what they feel but not expressly Ex–Muslim or Former Muslim
5)Borderline Muslims Then there are categories of progressive liberals, modernists , Islamic feminist who interpret Islam in ways extreme orthodox Muslim would not agree but still for all practical purposes they remain on border lines of Muslim or Cultural Muslim, there is one more type in border line Muslim communities who got converted to Islam but the process of Islamization did not take place or did not get completed, in cases of many Muslim communities process Islamization happened too late so what to call whose process of Islamization is in complete ?
Why is the titel "muslim apostates" and not "former muslims" as for all other religions? Nillurcheier ( talk) 09:43, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
ALL living people on this list who have left Islam need to be removed from this page *for their own safety* as the Shari'a penalty for apostasy generally amounts to a death sentence.
ONLY noted persons who have *already passed* / died may be safely listed publicly. RC Silk ( talk) 04:44, 21 July 2023 (UTC)