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This article took a good deal of effort by many people to reach its current form. If you would like to add a film to this article, please follow the guidelines below. Failure to follow these guidelines may result in the film being removed from the list.
Keep the entry short. The most relevant thing to mention is how the film is considered to be the greatest. People can follow the link to the film to find out more about it.
The film MUST be cited as THE BEST in the category where it is being listed. It is not enough for a citation to say "one of the best", or "considered by many". The citation can be from national and international surveys and polls of critics and the public. Editorial picks by the staff of a periodical or website are not sufficiently broad in their scope to be included.
Citations for the best films from a specific country should either be from sources from that country or from world-wide recognition. For example, it is not enough to be the favorite Italian film in America.
This article strives to be NPOV about OTHER PEOPLE's POV. The POV of editors does not matter.
Footnotes, Footnotes, Footnotes. If you don't want editors immediately deleting your work, please provide a link to the page where you found the citation.
This article was nominated for
deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
I'm sure there's a good reason for this, but why is Fellini's movie 8½ described using 'frac' i.e. with {{frac|8|1|2}} (8+1⁄2)?
This seems to offer little improvement over the actual Unicode 'half' character ('½') which is used in the wikilink anyway. If a user's system doesn't support ½, then it won't be able to open the link to that article – though I suppose in that edge case, you could argue that at least this article might display OK even if the link doesn't work.
If Unicode is a stretch, how about an HTML entity? They've been a W3C recommendation since 1999, so unlikely to cause even the oldest of web-capable devices to break a sweat. That would make the film's title 8½ in the source, which is pretty human-readable if you can't have "8½".
I wouldn't have noticed if 'frac' worked. But on my Mac (running Firefox on Mac OS 11 Big Sur) the text appeared initially as "8 1/2", then after I looked at the source and subsequently cancelled, it started appering as "8+1/2"!
Looks like an issue with Template:Fraction, the Mediawiki codebase, or perhaps something else. The source for Template:Fraction appears to be here.
/info/en/?search=Template:Fraction/styles.css
AFI List
Resolved
– The AFI's "100 greatest movies" polls are currently used in the article
Betty Logan (
talk)
Any idea why there is no mention of the AFI lists? Generally it's regarded as one of the better lists of top films:
Jewish movies are not a recognised genre (although Israel exists, none of them seem Israeli produced). In any case, it is not clear how the list was formulated i.e. is it a proper polled survey or a magazine editorial?
Betty Logan (
talk)
12:53, 29 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Logan and The Batman
@
TheTechLich: Have either of Logan or The Batman topped any notable polls declaring them the best superhero film? That's the threshold for inclusion here, see the "Basic guidelines for inclusion" above. Whether the films are regarded as among the so-called "greats" is beside the point.
TompaDompa (
talk)
15:43, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Not all audience polls count towards inclusion on this list of course, but how about you, for starters, remove all the sources that are not polls in which these films have been voted the best and write up descriptions for the entries similar to all the other entries on the list?
TompaDompa (
talk)
18:04, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I have reverted the addition. I glanced through the sources and could not locate any polls. Happy to reconsider, but I suggest TheTechLich keeps the sourcing explicitly to that which meets the criteria. We have discussed the likes of Rotten Tomatoes before, and the consensus is that it does not constitute a "best film" poll because nobody has actually votes for the "greatest" film.
Betty Logan (
talk)
21:45, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
In that case should we not remove this article or repurpose it with something to the effect of "films notable for positive reception"?
The sources you have brought forward for Logan do not meet the criteria. All you need is one reliable sourced poll that has explicitly voted Logan the greatest film. Not one collated from aggregator scores, or in-house periodicals, but an authentic survey of opinion where people have voted Logan the "greatest" superhero film. That is the bar that all of the other entries have met, so exceptions are not going to be made for individual films. If you want to make a case for changing the criteria then by all means do so. If you want to propose a different name for the article then by all means do so. But please stop adding the film sourced to sources that do not fit the inclusion criteria.
Betty Logan (
talk)
11:37, 26 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Requested move 13 June 2024
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
List of films considered the best →
List of films voted the best – The current title has long been recognized as being far from ideal. The inclusion criteria are, and have for a long time been, that the movie in question must have been voted the best in a notable poll. Indeed, the
WP:LEAD states that This is a list of films considered the best in national and international
surveys of
critics and the public. The proposed new title better reflects the actual contents of the list, and may also be helpful in preventing the addition of entries that do not meet the inclusion criteria.
TompaDompa (
talk) 18:51, 13 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.Safari ScribeEdits!Talk!19:25, 21 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Withdrawn alternative titles
Comment – Not against that title, but grammatically it still feels like we can do better. Browsing the list article, I noticed the language often flips between voted and ranked. So perhaps other candidates also include:
As described in further discussion, the term "ranking" does not properly suit this list article, so I withdraw these suggestions. --
GoneIn60 (
talk)
14:54, 22 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Support I agree that the methodology needs to be incorporated into the title in some way. There might be better, more nuanced, titles which we can come up with, but the only question we need to address as far as this rename goes is whether or not the proposed title is better than the current one.
Support. I'm not really crazy about these types of articles in general, but this would be a more accurate title for something that's just going after "well it's been in a lot of lists".
Andrzejbanas (
talk)
16:03, 18 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Support. If we have to have this article (and arguably we should), its name should at least give as little weight to its content as possible.
Tduk (
talk)
14:14, 21 June 2024 (UTC)reply
"List of film rankings" and "List of highest-ranked films" feel rather poor. The first just sounds like it's a list of grades or rankings that films would be graded which is not really what the article consists of. " List of critically-acclaimed films" makes it sound open to just dumping any films that gets decent ratings on MetaCritic to be added which I also don't think is appropriate.
Andrzejbanas (
talk)
19:54, 21 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Just to clarify, "List of critically-acclaimed films" was a side note for some future sub-list of films ranked by critics only, if and when that ever happens.When you say rankings aren't "really what the article consists of", I'd have to disagree. The term "rank" or "ranked" appears 32 times in the article, which is still a lot less than than "voted" (175 times), but it's still a significant number nevertheless. When we talk about where something places in an opinion poll, we can refer to its ranking in that poll. Makes perfect sense to me, but I respect your opinion. --
GoneIn60 (
talk)
20:14, 21 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Here's an example of what I'm talking about (excerpt from the list):
Vertigo (1958) was ranked number 1 with 39 votes when German film magazine Steadycam [de] asked 174 critics and filmmakers to vote for their favorite films
Clearly, it's natural to say that something was ranked in a certain position within the poll. Here, we can also see one reason why "vote" might heavily outweigh "rank" throughout the article; it is sometimes used 2-3 times in the same statement or claim. So we have to look beyond the numbers and just go by common sense. The term "ranking" is a natural fit in the title. --
GoneIn60 (
talk)
20:22, 21 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Using the term ranked in the article with the context of knowing what it's about. If I saw a bare link in a see also section that just said "List if film rankings" I wouldn't know it was about films that were placed highly on several best of lists.
List of highly ranked films is also problematic. If film criticism was as simple as lists and star ratings forever, I'd say this *could* slide, but for now I'd say no as that is not the case.
Andrzejbanas (
talk)
13:05, 22 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Fair enough. Also when I give this more thought, a list of rankings does seem to imply that there would be something along the lines of a top 10 or top 20 list, which is definitely not the case here. This list aims to only collect the #1 film in each category, listing multiple #1's from multiple sources. So regardless of how we feel about the interchangeability between voted and ranked in the article, without context, I can see how "ranking" might be misleading and ambiguous as a title and link. Let's axe it. --
GoneIn60 (
talk)
14:44, 22 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Clearly inferior how? Actual scope is "much reduced" how? You never give an explanation. That's like saying, "I disagree because." I couldn't care less if you all use the alternative suggestions or toss them aside (that's why they're called suggestions), but I don't get the harsh reactions of "poor" and "clearly inferior". If the term "ranked" is so wildly inappropriate and out of scope, then you might want to clean up the mess in the article before worrying about the title, because "ranked" is littered throughout. --
GoneIn60 (
talk)
05:32, 22 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Yeah, I just responded to Andrzejbanas above coming to that same realization, thanks. For some reason, it was escaping my attention that each category was only listing the very top film (the #1 film) in each poll that was cited. My bad! --
GoneIn60 (
talk)
14:45, 22 June 2024 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Time Out Experts
Time Out (magazine) is referenced a lot on the page, for instance: "Brief Encounter (1945) was voted the best romance film of all time with 25 votes in a 2013 poll of 101 experts conducted by Time Out London." One of the experts is
Miss Piggy. Many "experts" appear to have no relationship to the romance genre, beyond sometimes being in the film industry. The use of experts here appears to be an example of
WP:WEASEL.
Rollinginhisgrave (
talk)
05:12, 4 July 2024 (UTC)reply
"Experts" is the word used by the source, so it is reliably sourced. WP:WEASEL states "...views that are properly attributed to a reliable source may use similar expressions, if those expressions accurately represent the opinions of the source". Nevertheless, I agree that many of the contributors to the poll are not authorities on the genre, so the descriptor is being applied very liberally. A more accurate description would be "industry professionals", or something along those lines. Funnily enough, given that Miss Piggy has worked in the genre for decades, I am more able to accept her as expert on the genre than many of the other people polled.
Betty Logan (
talk)
14:19, 4 July 2024 (UTC)reply