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During the
FAC of this page
User:Circeus has moved the
List of Aston Villa captains over onto the the main list of Aston Villa F.C. players. I personally think it has become a duplication and that the captains could become integrated into the notable players section now. Although this will make the table very large, complicated and indeed overwhelming. Should page deletes be conducted unilaterally. Thoughts please. Thanks
Woodym55516:51, 4 August 2007 (UTC)reply
I'm sure Circeus is doing his best to improve the article, he seems to have a lot of experience. Re the two lists, I think club captains are inherently 'notable players' and so the two lists could be integrated. --
Malcolmxl517:43, 4 August 2007 (UTC)reply
How is / was the list of captains verified? Are, say, only players who captained the side for a full season or more included, or is it any player to have donned the armband?
Oldelpaso17:58, 4 August 2007 (UTC)reply
As it is, all the captain were already listed in the main list, but the color coding to mark them had severe
accessibility issues, which is what prompted me to add the separate table, who had very little data not in the main players list anyway. the captains are a subset of the main list, which, I think, makes more sense in a section, but not distinct or numerous enough to warrant a separate article.
Circeus18:14, 4 August 2007 (UTC)reply
I don't think it should even have its own list on this page. I know it may be a turnaround but i think the captains section should be integrated into the main list. I don't think that the colour coding has many accessibility issues. I think that a separate column should be made for the Captaincy dates and the "achievements" put in footnote form. I also think that i should probably move this discussion onto the talk page of the article concerned. Thanks
Woodym55518:24, 4 August 2007 (UTC)reply
I think you need to be able to add in the honours they won as a captain also somehow! (Everlast1910 09:08, 5 August 2007 (UTC))
Color key
Okay, all the captains' table info is now in the main table. I would agree with Woodym that it is not necessary to keep the separate tables anymore. I'm thinking that we could rename "records" to "notes" and moves in there the "100 legends" notes, the Aston Villa HoF inductions and captainship highlights to remove the need for coloring entirely. what are your thoughts?
Circeus14:56, 5 August 2007 (UTC)reply
I think the large strips of blue across the main list can go, although in the "notes section" (and i agree it should be notes, not records) i think some sort of colour coding would be useful to easily distinguish those who hold records. The captains section is oinly coloured if that person won something during his time as captain. I think the coloured highlights are useful when trying to distinguish between the notes. Otherwise it would just be an indiscriminate listing of notes. That is of course, just my opinion! How would you go about it? Would you put all of the notes including captains achievements in the list? Thanks
Woodym55515:26, 5 August 2007 (UTC)reply
It is fine for Walter Price; he has only a record.
For John Devey The first example looks okay, not uncomplicated, the information can easily be discerned. The dates should be aligned left though as the notes ruin the central alignment. But he isn't a Hall of Famer. The second example shows his "captains achievements in the notes section. How do we know it is related to captains?
For players like Charlie Aitken it gets very complicated without colour coding. He is a captain who won things, a club record holder and a hall of famer. His notes looks complicated in my opinion in the second example.
Woodym55515:42, 5 August 2007 (UTC)reply
I agree with Woodym's comments personally! (Everlast1910 17:40, 5 August 2007 (UTC))
Maybe add colours for current players still playing and a colour for Barry as being current club captain? (Everlast1910 20:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC))
I think Barry being current club captain is self evident by the "-" in his Captaincy column. If anyone wanted to find that he is current club captain all they have to do is click the sort button. Again with current players: the - show that. It would possibly be a case of
WP:RECENT as well as in two years will we care who was still playing in 2007? We have to avoid complicating it with colours. That is what i did earlier on and the table looked confusing and complicated.
Woodym55521:06, 5 August 2007 (UTC)reply
Okay fair enough! Accept all your points, so how far we off this being FL? (Everlast1910 21:53, 5 August 2007 (UTC))
Given that only notable players are listed here and that most players are not, yes i think it should be changed as and when you can.
Woodym55518:17, 9 August 2007 (UTC)reply
I disagree. "List of notable..." implies that all other Villa players are non-notable, which is patently untrue. If the lead states the criteria for inclusion, then List of Aston Villa F.C. players is fine, c.f. the existing featured lists for
Arsenal,
Liverpool and
Manchester United.
Oldelpaso20:57, 9 August 2007 (UTC)reply
I did see that they were called List of... . I don't think that there is a guideline but yes i do believe that some people may erroneously consider all other players inferior. I do believe that was Queen Victoria's worry for the Victoria Cross, that all others wern't brave. To avoid the complications of moving the FLC as well i suggest, (doing a U-turn here) that it should indeed be List of again. Given the fact that the norm is for it to be named List of, should it go in the uncontroversial proposals on the
WP:RM page. That is the question.
Woodym55521:09, 9 August 2007 (UTC)reply
Generally it is playing more than 100125 competitive, first team games for Aston Villa. Special exceptions are made for early players (19th century) because of the difference in number of games. Some people with special playing records such as top goalscorer are included though. Generally these players have played over 100 games so are included anyway. The intro at the top of the page should explain all of this . Hope my explanation helps.
Woodym55517:45, 9 August 2007 (UTC)reply
As this is a featured list, I consider that every player listed who has NOT reached the 125 appearances criteria should have the reason for their inclusion explained - for example, why is
Tom Griffiths included with only 67 appearances? His bio doesn't indicate anything exceptional.
Daemonic Kangaroo (
talk)
22:33, 17 March 2009 (UTC)reply
He was a club captain. All club captains are included in this list, though it does need a bit of updating which is on my to do list. Regards,
Woody (
talk)
23:01, 17 March 2009 (UTC)reply
So its ok to add Martin Laursen, right? I wasnt sure about that, and I was trying to think of some good reason to add him to this list haha. If he shouldnt be there though, feel free to remove him. EDIT - Also, I got the appearances and goals data from the Villa website, but they dont match the figures on his wiki page. Again, if I've got that wrong, feel free to correct it.
Methodicmadness (
talk)
13:05, 16 May 2009 (UTC)reply
Orphaned references in this article
I check pages listed in
Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for
orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of this article's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not.
AnomieBOT⚡06:52, 19 September 2008 (UTC)reply
The stats on this page and featured players are a few years out of date, quite a few players with over 100 first class appearances from recent time are not listed. Please contribute if you can.
From brief research the following should be added, there are likely more:
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