This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
This talk page is for
discussion on how to improve the
Leopard gecko article. If you would like to ask questions about the subject, please address them to the Reference desk. |
On 12 October 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from Common leopard gecko to Leopard gecko. The result of the discussion was moved. |
when keeping a leopard gecko as a pet it needs to have a terrarium. but if you canot get a terainium just yet it can survive in a plasic storage container but dont leave it in there forever. it doesn't need another comfort buddie it can survive without a other leopard gecko. do not put sand in there cages because they can not digest it if they accidentally swallow it.
Where can this picture go? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Deathgecko ( talk • contribs) 06:08, 12 December 2006 (UTC).
I guess anywhere
Over all- Leopard geckos are really good pets. They do live around 20-30 years if you keep them healthy. Leos are really cute and wonderful pets. Put it in the pet section. My gecko is adorable!!!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.29.70.109 ( talk) 15:24, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
Well, 27 sounds pretty good. I can totally document via witnesses that mine is at least 47 (purchased as an adult by a friend in 1963 or 1964 at the "White Sands" pet shop in Chicago), which I guess makes me (it) a world record. Cool - having the oldest one in the world is kind of neat. Oldjimh 17:21, 10 May 2007 (UTC)oldjimh
what does "hot" mean in this context? They're in heat? -- Krsont 11:25, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
It must be vandalism, judging by the bad spelling and whatnot. I inserted a hidden comment that says it could be vandalism. Ekansonic55 15:14, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
It's not vandalism. When you incubate the eggs, you can determine what sex they hatch out to be. Using higher temperatures will result in males and lower ones will result in females. A "hot" female is a gecko that hatched out female in a high temperature meant to hatch out males.
What 'hot females' means is that when a mother lays eggs at a high temperature, the hatchlings will most likely be a female, which present themselves differently than those who were born in a cooler termperature hormonally and aggressively. 'Hot females' are more likely to be more aggressive than those who were born in a cooler temperature. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.156.136.240 ( talk) 18:04, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Shouldn't the main picture be a standard adult gecko? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael.d.collier ( talk • contribs) 18:10, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Tyler John ( talk) 21:40, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Please do not link to every breeder known to mankind. IF a commercial site has exceptional information (care for example) not included here, by all means link to it...however try to link to the information itself without the "What's for sale page".-- Mike Searson ( talk) 19:30, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
I am very confused as to the eye licking/eyelid thing. It says in the article that they have both, but that sounds strange to me. It seems like they would have one or the other. Also, I've had a pet Leopard Gecko for almost five years, and I have never EVER seen her lick her eyes. From what I can tell, it doesn't even look like she has a long enough tongue to do so. Do I have a mutated Gecko?! Orcahuman ( talk) 23:15, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
As a fellow gecko owner, I've seen mine lick her eyes occasionally when I had her on sand - possibly there was a particle that she couldn't remove by blinking. I've since switched her to repti-carpet and she hasn't eye-licked again that I've noticed. Rhonesque ( talk) 15:22, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Orcahuman, I tried to fix that but it got deleted :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by D joker27 ( talk • contribs) 21:13, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
My gecko only closes his eyes when he sleeps but it probably depends on the individual leo. Some leos probably do one or the other while others do both. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.29.70.109 ( talk) 15:31, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
Theres was alot of links some had mutipul ones going to the same site some had the exact same info and some were just for business purposes . Also want to add http://geckofile.top-site-list.com as most of the links are alreay there ,there wasnt a link for a forum and it seems like a very helpful site . If there are not any objections for a week or two I will do this .
Pagosapunk ( talk) 17:08, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Is a link to a webcam really appropriate? Besides being giving little/no additional information, it is poor image quality, and has been lifeless whenever I checked. Sexy plant lover ( talk) 09:28, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
like there was this stupid kid he put in 2 males i told not to he said whatever and then he put the males in the next day one was dead wat retard sad to :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.179.18.249 ( talk) 23:35, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
A lot of this article is plagarised from other sites, particularly leopard care sheet pages. Or it may be the other way around, but from the wording of some of the paragraphs I would guess that parts of the wikipedia article is plagarised. Tyler John ( talk) 22:53, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
what does the chart exactly mean? leopard geckos don't lay 25 eggs at 5 years do they? This looks to me like random numbers or something. Tyler John ( talk) 21:49, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
The number of eggs in the chart indicate the possible number of eggs a female is able to produce at a certain age. I think the 25 at 5 should be 15 and is most likely a typo. More than 20 eggs a year is highly unlikely. -- Dutchjester ( talk) 14:15, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
I just reverted to remove a section describing black spots on the tongue up to age 6 mo. These were called "Malcainoa Vakey" in the edit, but I was unable to locate any information verifying this. It looks like the second time the IP has added this information. Any clarifications? -- TeaDrinker ( talk) 20:58, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Suggest removing the Gecko's Unlimited reference and possibly finding a way to integrate information from the guide into either wikipedia or wikibooks. Jared555 ( talk) 05:27, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
I added the more footnotes template as there are very few citations in the article. Just in the first and last section. I and others seem to suspect content may have been plagiarized but I have no evidence of this. Making sure there are citations for all content would clear this up. Jared555 ( talk) 05:29, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
I will try to work on some of this as time permits but I don't know how much should be done before references are supplied.
1. Care Section< ..a. Written like a how to ..b. Seems much too detailed, at least in it's current form ..c. No references
2. Anatomy and Morphology ..a. No references ..b. Could possibly use more links to other articles
3. Diet and Longevity ..a. Written like a howto ..b. No references
4. Reproduction ..a. Borderline how to ..b. No references
5. Number of eggs laid by age
..a. Probably would be best if reformatted to be horizontal rather than vertical.
..b. No reference
6. Color morphs
..a. No references Removed Section
7. Common problems
..a. Written like howto
..b. List has mixed capitalization, etc. - Cleaned up
..c. No references
..d. Possibly needs wikification
8. Cryptosporidiosis ..a. No references ..b. Possibly just the person's opinion
I have struck out items that I have taken care of so there is still a reference. It is easier than adding a note every time. Jared555 ( talk) 03:51, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
you have too many problems, plus half this stuff is gone -D_joker27 p.s. lizard hater! :o —Preceding unsigned comment added by D joker27 ( talk • contribs) 21:22, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
I tried to add some desent info about geckos and in an hour it was gone! wtf?? I want my stuff back!!! Wiki, You suck —Preceding unsigned comment added by D joker27 ( talk • contribs) 21:08, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
Was there ever a Morphs section in the article? The LGs have even more color morphs than beardies do...which is saying something. There's the albinos, leucistics, high yellows, tangerines, jungle giants, black pearls, and my personal favorite, the Tremper Tangerine Carrot Tail Carrot Head Jungle Giant Albino Leopard Gecko (and yes, that is real), to name only a few. I'll add a section if that's okay, but it'll be hard to find references for every single one of them. Crimsonraptor ( talk) 18:02, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
I am really pissed off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.51.208.14 ( talk) 00:45, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
I added a "leopard geckos as pets" section, feel free to mention the morphs there... cite what you can, but I don't think a few un-cited morphs would be *that* big a deal...
72.223.117.158 (
talk)
07:07, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Well, I *tried* to add one. It got deleted. Could someone with more information to add please re-add it? <sigh> 72.223.117.158 ( talk) 07:44, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
I am curious why this link:
http://www.paulsagereptiles.com/LeopardGenetics.htm was removed.
68.226.98.53 (
talk)
01:46, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
Neeeeed morph stuff!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.29.70.109 ( talk) 15:43, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
First of all, anyone who has ever owned a leopard gecko shold know that THEY DON'T EAT DEAD THINGS!!! AAAAARGH!!! PLEASE FIX THAT!!!!!!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.48.55.87 ( talk) 00:21, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
1. I know, from personal experience, that it's possible for a leo to lose only *part* of its tail, as well as losing the full thing. My current leo lost about half of her tail when she was a baby, and it grew back (it's probably more normal-looking than a completely regrown tail, the shape and texture seem to be about normal, except that the tip's a little funny)
2. A class I went to a while back described some of the actual physical mechanisms going on with tail autonomy, including that the spinal column for the regrown tail doesn't have the usual holes, so (afaik) the regrown tail doesn't really have nerves in it. I don't recall the exact details, however.
3. It might be worth mentioning that at least limited regrowth of lost toes can also occur.
But I don't have sources on these, and I'm not quite sure how to say them in a suitably "encyclopedic" way. But if someone with more time, interest, and/or available sources cares to add those details... Tamtrible ( talk) 20:40, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
Do you have any suggestions for re-writing the section?
The information on the various morphs is pretty widely available, as is the general description of what each morph entails. There are even breeding calculators that will show you the possible results from breeding any given pair of leopard geckos of known lineage. I'm not really sure what, if anything, is inappropriate about the extant format for that section. Tamtrible ( talk) 21:53, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
I'm un-sequestering it. For one thing, its presence may discourage considerably less... encyclopedic replacements. Tamtrible ( talk) 17:18, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Whoever put "citation needed" on the morphs section: will
http://www.paulsagereptiles.com/LeopardGenetics.htm be good enough? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Tamtrible (
talk •
contribs)
01:18, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
please delete my photo on the bottom of the page, i no longer want it there, it is the one where the gecko is looking at cam thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrRedPanda ( talk • contribs) 00:54, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
The range for this species is incorrect and seems to be conflated with that of the genus Eublepharis in its entirety, rather than just that of E. macularius. I cannot locate any certified records of this species having been collected from anywhere other than India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. If one of the local herp experts thinks otherwise, citations are needed. Attenboroughii ( talk) 04:11, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
As a general observation I would like to note that this article is heavily, perhaps excessively, influenced by conventional internet wisdom about leopard geckos. Many of the citations are pet keeping guides. Some of these guides (The Herpetoculture of Leopard Geckos, which I added, perhaps hypocritically) are books written by reputable sources and cite primary literature. Others are internet sites without a listed author and no cited references. Or books which I do not believe cite any primary sources (based on my familiarity with the quality of other herp books by those authors), but cannot confirm as I do not own that particular book.
The problem with using these sources is that leopard geckos are such popular pets, and are commonly kept by people without much biology or zoology knowledge, that many strong opinions have formed about their natural history that are likely untrue. For example, the assertion that leopard geckos live singly appears to be completely made up by pet keepers, presumably to justify the convenience of keeping only one animal. Furthermore, the assertion currently listed (6/28/2020) that leopard geckos cannot transmit salmonella is blatantly and dangerously incorrect - not only have they been shown to be capable of transmitting salmonella, but there are multiple documented hospitalizations [1]. My impression is that these claims form as internet myths, are published in blogs, websites, and maybe low quality print literature. None of these sources require the author to have any actual knowledge or proof, and then these non-reputable sources are cited on wikipedia to basically launder incorrect information. Wikipedia, generally considered to be reputable, thus perpetuates internet myths.
I have no doubt that previous editors have been acting in good faith, and I acknowledge not everyone has access to primary literature databases. Moving forward, however, I would urge any editors to really think about the quality of sources being cited. Bad information about natural history can lead to pet keepers keeping their animals in subpar conditions. Bad information about zoonotic disease risk could kill someone. I have added three sources (two academic, one husbandry guide that cites primary literature) to try and improve the overall reliability of this article. I will remove the salmonella information now as well. Connorlong90 ( talk) 03:50, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
I am of the opinion this section needs an overhaul. It states currently (6/29/20): "In captivity, common leopard geckos typically feed on crickets, dubia roaches, mealworms/superworms, and other insects." Well, in captivity, they eat whatever you feed them. So this isn't really useful behavior information.
The section continues: "Most leopard geckos prefer hunting food themselves." How do we know that? What does that even mean? There is no - and likely could not be - a reference speaking conclusively to the opinions of geckos.
It continues making similar claims, like "The majority of captive common leopard geckos refuse to eat dead prey." (No citation) "Dead prey should not be offered, as the nutritional value significantly decreases when dried." (No citation, now functioning as a how to husbandry guide). "Crickets are the most common food source in captivity" (again, this will vary based on where the keeper lives and what they choose to feed their pet) "as they can hunt them in their enclosure the way they would in their natural environment" (no citation, how do you know that?) "though mealworms, waxworms, and dubia roaches (and, less frequently, other roach species) are also common." (No citation).
At the very end of the section, a single reference is provided to a husbandry guide for captive geckos. The same book that had been cited previously for claims that I know are incorrect - whether this is a poor quality source, or is being incorrectly cited to support incorrect claims is unclear at this time. I would like to remove or re-write this section if there are no objections. Connorlong90 ( talk) 22:37, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
So there is an interesting trend I have noticed in recent years, where leopard geckos have been declared crepuscular or cathemeral instead of nocturnal. I have looked into this and am not able to find any scientific reports (peer reviewed or even white papers) supporting this assertion. Rather, it appears to have been declared at least in part by John Courteney Smith, the owner of Arcadia Lightbulbs, to support assertions that leopard geckos (as one of the most commonly kept lizards) need UVB bulbs (in fact, a trade publication written by Courteney-Smith is what is cited here in support of leopard geckos being cathemeral). The assertion captive leopard geckos need UVB would make no sense if leopard geckos are nocturnal, but makes plenty of sense if they are cathemeral, and coincidentally, leopard geckos being cathemeral would sell more UVB bulbs.
Obviously motive cannot really be proven here - it makes sense a well intentioned maker of reptile bulbs would be predisposed to believe in the importance of reptile bulbs - and in any case, motives cannot truly prove or disprove an argument. However, the peer reviewed citations on this page, as well as the published books I have linked as sources, assert that leopard geckos are strictly nocturnal, coming out at dusk. I will cite the exact citations on the actual article - but both the original article describing leopard geckos (Minton 1966) and the most recent reviewed article posted by a different editor (Rawat 2019) both describe E. macularis as nocturnal. The latter is a description of E. macularis' recent discovery in Nepal, and the authors even mention their nocturnal behavior as the likely reason the species had not previously been known to exist in Nepal.
Nocturnal behavior is also consistent with my experiences interacting with the related species the desert banded gecko in California. Obviously personal experiences from a single editor do not constitute evidence appropriate for an encyclopedia citation, but as the primary literature seems to support nocturnal behavior, and that is consistent with the behavior of a similar species I have personally observed in the wild, I am going to re-write this article to state that E. macularis is nocturnal. I propose/request the following:
1) Leopard geckos be listed as a nocturnal species, as they are described in the scientific literature.
2) The assertion E. macularis is nocturnal is not to be changed to reflect the reptile husbandry preferences of pet keepers, as this is not a how-to article on reptile husbandry.
3) Anyone who would wish to challenge the assertion E. macularis is nocturnal should provide an appropriate citation written by a biologist (or someone functioning in an official capacity) who has firsthand experience with this species in the wild, and NOT a source that pertains to pet keeping, particularly not a source that has a financial incentive to sell UVB bulbs to pet keepers.
Connorlong90 ( talk) 21:56, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
While I was looking through the article, I found several categories that I believe to be missing and something I would like to add. I would like to see Conservation (lizards as a measure of ecosystem health specifically), Enemies, and Parental Care. Conservation would be an interesting lens to look in as this specie is widely bred in captivity. Understanding how this could affect the ecosystem and how their capture can affect ecosystem health could be interesting. Similarly, including a section about enemies would be noteworthy since it can build on conservation and better elucidate where the common leopard gecko lies in the food chain. Finally, having a section about parental care would be helpful as it is missing from the entry completely and being able to understand how “hot females”, females who are infertile and more aggressive, interact with their parents and if their behavior can be increased or decreased by parental care would be helpful.
Joshuachenwustl ( talk) 02:19, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
Does anyone want to add a photo gallery? I am noticing additional pictures pop up that don't really relate to the text specifically, but if there were a gallery at the end then editors could add photos they feel are relevant overall without disrupting the article flow. I deleted a couple images I considered superfluous, and am in the process of replacing lower quality photos that have higher quality analogs on Wikimedia Commons. Some of these could be added back in at the end if anyone feels strongly they should be included. I'll leave it up to another editor - if folks feel strongly all the photos should be included I'd say add a gallery, if not, I will continue to remove images that do not specifically complement information in the text. I think part of the issue is E. macularius is a popular pet and lots of folks want their animals included on Wiki, but there just isn't space for that unfortunately. Space that could be used to show photos of say, habitat, chromatophores, the mechanism of tail regeneration, or specific behaviors probably shouldn't go to another similar image of a pet gecko in profile. Connorlong90 ( talk) 00:26, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
(See nocturnal habits above - repeated IP edits without adding citations and using existing citations incorrectly) Connorlong90 ( talk) 20:18, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello and welcome to the talk page! Specifically, this is the portion of the page dedicated to discussing the sleeping habits of leopard geckos (whether this species should be listed by Wikipedia as being nocturnal, cathemeral, or crepuscular). Thank you for your interest in contributing to this section – our collective understanding of this species has important implications for scientists and pet keepers alike, so it is important to be as accurate as possible in our article. Please read through and reply to this section before making any changes to the article. The TLDR version is that sources currently listed on the page clearly list E. macularis as nocturnal, but there have been edits to say it is crepuscular or cathemeral without citing sources that support that position, and that position appears to be incorrect based on a literature review.
If you disagree with any assessments above that is ok! It is important we discuss any disagreements to make sure we’re not missing anything. And if you have found additional resources to suggest that E. macularius is active during the day in the wild that I and other editors have not found yet, that is excellent, we can use that information to create a better article. In either case, please add your position and/or resources here, and we can discuss and reach consensus on how to best present that information before making changes to the page. The goal is not to prevent changes, rather to ensure that changes are properly cited so we are not just undoing each other’s edits, confusing readers, and accidentally creating a bunch of contradictory articles from lower quality third party sites that cut-and-paste information from Wikipedia.
Best,
Connorlong90 ( talk) 20:17, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
Perhaps the best way to avoid edit-warring is some variation of "Leopard geckos are generally considered nocturnal, though some people argue that they are crepuscular or cathemeral instead". That way, the official position of the page is "They're nocturnal", but people who disagree have their view... at least mentioned. Tamtrible ( talk) 16:46, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
Hello, I am revisiting a topic previously described here: /info/en/?search=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Amphibians_and_Reptiles/Archive_7#Proposed_Eublepharis_vs._Leopard_Gecko_Page_Renames
I suggest that we rename this page (Eublepharis macularius) to "leopard gecko" instead of "common leopard gecko." The majority of English speakers use "leopard gecko" to refer unambiguously to E. macularius and not other Eublepharis species, which would qualify this page for a rename under majority use guideliens( /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Moving_a_page#Reasons_for_moving_a_page). The scientific literature also refers to E. macularius as "leopard gecko" - a cursory search on pubmed reveals that "leopard gecko" and "E. macularius" are generally used interchangeably (please see prior discussion). Additionally, Google's search results already redirect searches for "leopard gecko" to this page, which could be confusing for users not familiar with the latin names, and also indicates that people searching for "leopard gecko" are expecting information on E. macularius and not the genus Eublepharis.
The consensus on the prior discussion was that the rename was warranted, but there were not many editors weighing in. I wanted to post here to give another opportunity for comments prior to renaming the page Connorlong90 ( talk) 19:19, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 ( talk) 16:39, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
Common leopard gecko → Leopard gecko – Thank you for checking in to assess this requested page move, your time is appreciated. I believe a rename to "Leopard Gecko" from "common leopard gecko" is warranted. "Leopard gecko" is generally used as vernacular to refer to E. macularius unambiguously, not to the genus Eublepharis. Though some other Eublepharis species are occasionally referred to as leopard geckos (though always with a modifier - eg, Satpura leopard gecko or West Indian leopard gecko), majority use guidelines for page naming ( /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Moving_a_page#Reasons_for_moving_a_page) would indicate that it is more appropriate to name this page "Leopard gecko" which is used by most to refer to E. macularius, as opposed to "common leopard gecko", which not frequently used. Furthermore, "leopard gecko" is used synonymously with E. macularius in most scientific literature (see link to prior discussion below for details), and google search results for "leopard gecko" currently link to the page for "common leopard gecko," which indicate that internet users searching for leopard gecko are looking for information on E. macularius and not the genus Eublepharis (In further support of this assertion, please see this research article on reptile search terms: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8001315/). The name of the page not reflecting this majority use could potentially be confusing to users not well versed in latin names. This change would be unlikely to cause inconvenience to those familiar with latin names, as the best way to be precise would be to search the actual latin name to begin with, which would redirect users to the appropriate page anyway. This topic was previously discussed here: /info/en/?search=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Amphibians_and_Reptiles/Archive_7#Proposed_Eublepharis_vs._Leopard_Gecko_Page_Renames where consensus was moving the page was warranted. As not many editors weighed in, I felt providing opportunity for further discussion was warranted prior to the rename. Connorlong90 ( talk) 05:25, 12 October 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. Bada Kaji ( talk • श्रीमान् गम्भीर) 14:33, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
Just a reminder to new editors that Wikipedia is not intended to be a how-to husbandry guide for animal care ( Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a manual, guidebook, textbook, or scientific journal). This is discussed in various sections on this talk page above but I wanted to put that link here in its own section so it's easily accessible. There have been some recent edits to put husbandry info into the article that I and another editor have removed. Connor Long ( talk) 07:06, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
they scream when they are mad or uncomfortable with you 2603:6011:9A23:A20D:CCBD:E9CC:AF06:3F ( talk) 15:02, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
Should a page be made for Ron Tremper, who was a major contributor to the domestication of leopard geckos? Several morphs are named for him, and his books are cited several times throughout the article. Is this person considered significant enough for a page of his own? Details about his work would seem like unnecessary details to include on the main leopard gecko article. 161.97.246.177 ( talk) 07:21, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
The image for the sexual dimorphism section shows two leopard geckos seemingly in the same enclosure. With all the misinformation around leopard geckos id be worried that someone might see that picture and then think that this is ok and go out and buy a pair and cohab them. What do yall think of changing that picture or adding some kind of disclaimer? Digital542 ( talk) 08:12, 11 March 2024 (UTC)