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Wahhabism is very much a school of thought. How would it make sense for it to not? Heard of the four schools of thought?How does it make sense to follow 2 movements. Salafism and Wahhabism? Wahhabism is the school Ibn Abd al-Wahhab made a book on that isn't all to do with politics. Such as graves User1527 ( talk) 19:23, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
References
Why did you avoid what I said? How can you follow two ideologies? The hanbali leaders went against him. That map is outdated. Wahhabism talks about "devotion to graves" the other scholars of thoughts allow this how does that make sense? User1527 ( talk) 20:03, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
Also read Kitāb at-Tawḥīd and you'll see it goes against your reference is unreliable it talks about how 'they struggled' and how this is 'a law created by men' not very neutral is it? User1527 ( talk) 20:17, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
Mate you avoided what I said again. How can you follow 2 movements? Read Kitāb at-Tawḥīd and you'll see it's not all to do with politics. Your source isn't neutral at all it doesn't use 'claims' 'believed to be' it says 'a law created by men' how is that neutral? Sharialaw.com clearly shows the Qu'ran verses with its chapters and verses written and clearly explains misconceptions. I don't want to go over and over agian User1527 ( talk) 20:55, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
When did i say the Hanbali school was a movement? Kitāb at-Tawḥīd created by Ibn Abd al-Wahhab was made in the 18th century don't making it much less than a thousand years old. On this website it says that and it looks quite unreliable considering other more reliable sources haven't gone over this http://veil.unc.edu/religions/islam/law/ User1527 ( talk) 21:35, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
I meant how can terrorist groups such as ISIS follow Salafism and Wahhabism User1527 ( talk) 21:37, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
The last paragraph on page 76 the second source. It literally says Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal did something Ibn Abd al-Wahhab mistaked as a prostration. In Wahhabism they have a book called Kitāb at-Tawḥīd written by Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab. Which attempts to explain Qu'ran and hadith. You avoided what I said again how can you claim to follow 2 political movements? In Kitāb at-Tawḥīd he talks about what he perceives as shirk (ascribing partners to God). His book calls people who don't follow him 'kafir' (non- Muslim) he has more than enough for it to be considered a school of thought. If you read sharialaw.com and go over what it said you'll see there is more than enough evidence to say it isn't 'strict' so how can the Hanbali school be as well since it hasn't had the same recorded history?
User1527 ( talk) 03:08, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
Yes.It isn't true to its 'hanbali origins' But when I said 'both' I meant Salafism and Wahhabism. E.g. ISIS claims to be a Salafi and a follower of Ibn Abd al-Wahhab. Making it follow 2 movements which doesn't make sense unless it's a school of thought. For your 2nd last reply. The author on the second source called Wahhabism a 'school' as well which further proves the point.
https://www.academia.edu/17329459/The_Hanbali_and_Wahhabi_Schools_of_Thought_as_Observed_Through_the_Case_of_Ziyarah — Preceding unsigned comment added by User1527 ( talk • contribs) 09:33, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
Ibn Abd al-Wahhab calls people who don't follow him kafir (disbelievers). Kitāb at-Tawḥīd talks about non political things such as'devotion at graves'. How can terrorist organisations follow two movements Wahhabism and Salafism? User1527 ( talk) 23:04, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
It does explain them well. They don't use the Hanbali school and so it shouldn't say they use the Hanbali school User1527 ( talk) 09:54, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Hi,
User1527, you seem to be very unfamiliar with Wikipedia policies. On Wikipedia, content has to be
verifiable, based on
reliable sources and written from a
neutral point of view. We do not publish
original research. According to
WP:SOURCETYPES, When available, academic and peer-reviewed publications, scholarly monographs, and textbooks are usually the most reliable sources
. In addition, please note that this is a
good article and that, accordingly, there are high standards for additions or removal of content. With that in mind, let’s take it one by one, shall we?
In Arabia, a preference for the Wahhabi school, founded in the 18th centurydoes not even make sense on its own, because Wahhabism is not a school of Islamic legal thought.
Again how can you follow Salafism and Wahhabism if they are both movements? Why does Ibn Abd al-Wahhab call people who don't follow him'kafir' (disbelievers). If you read Kitāb at-Tawḥīd (written by Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab) it has sections such as ' devotion at graves' which isn't political and is about normal beliefs. Also this source further proves the point https://www.academia.edu/17329459/The_Hanbali_and_Wahhabi_Schools_of_Thought_as_Observed_Through_the_Case_of_Ziyarah User1527 ( talk) 11:39, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
By 'follow 2 movements' I mean terrorist groups such as ISIS User1527 ( talk) 11:41, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
They don't follow the Hanbali school so why write they follow the Hanbali school? User1527 ( talk) 12:30, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Also the fact that they destroyed lots of Islamic grave sites further proves the point they use Kitāb at-Tawḥīd page 62-64. User1527 ( talk) 12:38, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
https://www.academia.edu/17329459/The_Hanbali_and_Wahhabi_Schools_of_Thought_as_Observed_Through_the_Case_of_Ziyarah User1527 ( talk) 13:26, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
They still called it a school I don't seem to understand why you avoided what I said either? The explanation was crystal clear User1527 ( talk) 13:44, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Also on his 5th reply on the second source he provided the author was the same User1527 ( talk) 13:53, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Also this https://archive.org/details/greatpowersregio00kaim/page/162/mode/2up
Show me actual proof of Ibn Abd al-Wahhab preferring the Hanbali school rather than some random people who have are 'scholarly'. Explain why Kitāb at-Tawḥīd goes against the four schools of thought User1527 ( talk) 14:42, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
to sum it up how exactly is the hanbali school 'strict' or 'literalist'? I want an explanation not a source repeating what you wrote. I don't mind if you copy and paste one.
Also Ibn Abd al-wahhab calling people who don't follow him kafir is a well known fact alreadry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xExC_Xf4fRs — Preceding unsigned comment added by User1527 ( talk • contribs) 16:22, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
article talk pages exist solely to discuss how to improve articles; they are not for general discussion about the subject of the article. To sum it up, there are reliable sources describing Hanbalis as strict and I can find another one with just a quick google search. So give us contradictory reliable sources if you want to change the article.-- JBchrch ( talk) 16:37, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
As far as I can tell User1527 seems to be saying he thinks Saudi Arabia doesn’t, and the article should reflect that. For the record, below is a selection of reliable sources confirming the position.
DeCausa ( talk) 19:59, 2 April 2021 (UTC) And on the relationship between Wahhabism and the Hanbali School: “Generally speaking, the Wahhabi movement opposes innovations (bida’) within Islam and confines its recognition of sources of religious authority to the Qu’ran, the Sunnah (the traditions of the Prophet Muhammad), and the teachings of the four schools of Islamic law, principally the Hanbali.” Peterson, 2020, Historical Dictionary of Saudi Arabia pp.287-8 DeCausa ( talk) 20:24, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Again all your sources just mentioned that it follows the Hanbali school. No explanation of how they interpret hadith and Qu'ran. If we're going to write that the kingdom of Saudi Arabia does follow the Hanbali school. Then I suggest you read this sharialaw.com which while you could claim it to not be realiable it explains most of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia's laws to not be in line with Islam User1527 ( talk) 17:34, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
For those editors out there that think Saudi Arabia doesn't jail or fine critics, well, just take a look at these Wikipedia articles:
1) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loujain_al-Hathloul
2) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raif_Badawi
3) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dina_Ali_Lasloom
4) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_of_Saudi_Arabia#Daughters
5) /info/en/?search=Osama_bin_Laden
Then of course, Jamal Khasoggi was also made to disappear. 103.246.39.46 ( talk) 06:19, 18 July 2021 (UTC)