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In the plastic.com discussion of the Canada case, someone brought up the following links showing use of the Kirpan as a weapon; thus, I've changed this to say it's "rarely" used as a weapon rather than never. Even than might not be right since we don't actually have statistics showing how often kirpans are used as weapons.
http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=170859 http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=39&ArticleID=1374206 http://www.sikhcoalition.org/LegalCanada5.asp Ken Arromdee 15:04, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I think more clarity is needed. In the Indian murder case, was the kirpan mentioned in the murder case a small one (a blade of around 3 inches) like the ones allowed in Canadian schools? I seriously doubt it. It was probably much larger---more like a full-sized sword---way too large and dangerous to be carried legally in any public place in Canada.
As for the Yorkshire Post article---an old Sikh man took, but did not actually use a kirpan, when his family were attacked by robbers armed with guns. He would have to be a very strange man to think a small 3 inch blade would have been useful to him. In this case the kirpan was not used to attack anyone, so it's impossible to infer how large it was.
My point is that small kirpans, as lethal as the cutlery used daily by school children are allowed in Canadian schools. Larger ones are forbidden.
Today text from several copyrighted online sources was pasted into the article. I have reverted back to the previous version. Melchoir 00:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Please do not repost the material. Melchoir 01:04, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I see that you have reverted the article Kirpan without listing any quotes regarding the alleged copyright violation - (I thought that the official policy is to alert the user on the discussion page before reverting see Wikipedia:Resolving_disputes#First_step:_talk_to_the_other_parties_involved) please give the quotes before you revert the article in future so that it can be checked. (you have failed to give any material that I have used not being a quotation of regulation) It could be that the other party has used my text/article! - it not too difficult to do that, is it? -- Hari Singh 00:36, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Further, the Reht Maryada is also a regulation which has to be quoted and is set by the SGPC, the official Sikh Organisation.
Please look at this article: Igor_Stravinsky#Criticism which appears to have a few quotes - perhaps you should delete this article as well!! and then I can show you a few more such articles!!
Please be kind enough to explain the following abbreviated terms: "blank copyvio", reorder legal section and in fact, rv copyvio of http://www.sikhs.org/art12.htm back to YEvb0; see talk
Look before you leap!! What really is your problem? I think your actions are completely unwarranted and unfair and a complete farce!! -- Hari Singh 02:02, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
This combination of theft and plagiarism is unacceptable. If it had appeared in a new article, it would have earned a {{ db-copyvio}} tag and been deleted long ago. As it is, there is a clean version of the article, so I restored it. And that brings us to the present. Melchoir 02:21, 5 June 2006 (UTC) this statement is utterly wrong - I have not gained anything in setting up this article. Further, this article has GFDL status (Sikhiwiki) and you should not be questioning its status as such - Also, the only beneficiary from this article would be Sikhism and I am sure that all Sikhism site would have no objections to their material being used to promote this religion. The proof of this is Sikhiwiki where no complaint has been received about any of the point that you have raised from any party ever!. See sikhiwiki.org
Below is a section from Wikipedia regarding use of material for quotation:
What's copyrighted? Copyright exists automatically upon creation in a tangible form. An author does not need to apply for or even claim copyright for a copyright to exist. Only an explicit statement that the material is in the public domain, licensed with the GFDL, or is otherwise compatible with the GFDL, makes material reusable under current policy, unless it is inherently in the public domain due to age or source.
What about fair use? Under fair use guideline, brief selections of copyrighted text may be used, but only with full attribution and only when the purpose is to comment on or criticize the text quoted.
Clearly, "fair use" allows one to use material to support or criticise a point being made. To show that the kirpan can be worn in any country, one need to quote the
which is what I have done.
I think your attitude is incorrect and unfair and misuse of this site? I am not happy with your decision and wish to take this further. In the meantime I will be posting a basic version of the article again without the points that you have mentioned above or amended. I would appreciate if you discuss any changes before you make them - as mention at Resolving_disputes
I think you are deliberately picking on my religion and this article. -- Hari Singh 04:44, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I've replied at my own talk page, where this discussion actually took place. I don't need to be attacked here like this. This article is now off my watchlist, so do what you will with it. It's an incoherent chimera made of thinly paraphrased, argumentative, POV quotations and undue attention to insignificant details. I can only hope that someone spiritually acceptable will be allowed to clean it all up. Good luck! Melchoir 05:41, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
What's the US policy on Kirpans in schools? I heard of a case similar to the one in Canada happening in the US, but don't know anything else about it.
When questioned on the official policy of the Foreign Office on the wearing of the kirpan by Sikh employees, the official response was:
The recent case in Canada of the Supreme Court ruling that Kirpans can be worn to school has brought up discussion regarding whether or not the Kirpan needs to be sharp, or if it can be dull and still serve the same ceremonial and religious purposes. Could we have this clarified in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adc fortytwo ( talk • contribs) 3 March 2006
Hello. Could whoever posted the extracts from the judgment of the recent Danish case let me know where they found those quotations? I'm a student of human rights law and it would be tremendously useful if I could read the case. Thanks.
...as used in the article, is a nonsense. There's no such thing. I would grant you "ornamental weapon" as it's clearly ornamented, but the difference between a, so called, defensive weapon and an offensive weapon is intent. However, intent cannot be bestowed on an inanimate object. The whole "Defensive Weapon" article should be wiped: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_weapon as proselytizing for the gun lobby rather than presenting fact, so you can leave that argument out.
You could easily add "intended as a" to be accurate. Zaelath 06:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Question: is there any rule about what material the kirpan must be made of? Does it have to be metal? If there are no specific rules, then perhaps it could be made of cardboard or cloth. That way it would pass through metal detectors and would certainly be allowed by any security guard with even a tiny bit of common sense. Zsero 16:52, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Do we have any explanation on why Sikhs don't like the word "dagger"? If we can have some sort of explanation we might be able to add it in neutral language like "Sikhs prefer not to compare their ceremonial knives with other weapons..." But without an explanation we can't leave point of view statements in the article. Nick ( talk) 21:36, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Respectfulness aside, dagger is inaccurate. By definition a dagger has a double edged blade and is intended primarily for stabbing. A Kirpan does not fit this description. 24.69.70.188 ( talk) 16:23, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
They don't like the violent connotations of "dagger" on a religious symbol. Just as Christians are reluctant to remember the cross also represents a torture device, again negative connotations associated with a nobler representation. Nonetheless it is a small dagger and should be described as such for lack of better description. 22:49, 10 July 2008. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.50.135.92 ( talk)
As ( 24.69.70.188) said: that's not a strictly accurate description. The Kirpan is universally a curved blade, some so much so that they're useless for stabbing, and can range in size from a pen-knife to a sword. Knife or blade is a more accurate description than dagger. 75.92.165.95 ( talk) 00:33, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
"Just as Christians are reluctant to remember the cross also represents a torture device" - The whole point of Christianity is that a cross is a torture device!!! 109.159.99.253 ( talk) 17:58, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
A Sica is also a curved knife designed for fighting and the Wikipedia article describes it as a dagger. If a sica can be described as a dagger, so can a kirpan. JDZeff ( talk) 00:28, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
as you know there is a tag on the first section that states there are too many quotes, it would be better if they wern't in the quote box, and they are either removed or rephrased and worded into the section without the quotes. anyone else agree with me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Superbun ( talk • contribs) 17:28, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
I've re-worded the section on Denmark for the moment: there were several references to the "Danish Weapons Law", but no detail about which actual law this is. Could somebody with a knowledge of the Danish statute book give some detail about which particular law (act and year) was used in these cases? ~dom Kaos~ ( talk) 10:25, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
The article is wildly biased towards the Sikh POV. E.g. "...the bravery of a Khalsa can never be questioned as history is witness to the steadfastness of their resolve", etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.111.141.100 ( talk) 13:57, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
And? ........Whats your point?-- Raidcmdr ( talk) 08:10, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
IAN GOODLEY —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.64.186.143 ( talk) 12:23, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Regarding the following claim:
I think the claim that wearing a Kirpin is legal in India is pretty non-contentious. And it's protection by the Constitution would make sense. But, I think the claim that the Constitution specifically covers the issue of the Kirpan, should be cited, to something other thank sikhinformationcentre.org, which appears to be a bias source. It also happens to be invalid link. -- Rob ( talk) 20:32, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
I am changing the reference to lawmin.nic.in/legislative/Art1-242%20(1-88).doc.It specifies the same thing,but the reference is non-POV as it is .nic.in,which is used for Indian goverment agencies.The exact text as per the source is:Explanation I.—The wearing and carrying of kirpans shall be deemed to be included in the profession of the Sikh religion.This is a part of Aritlce 25 of the constitution of India and hence I'm changing the text and source. Zoravar ( talk) 17:27, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
References
Can someone add more info about what Kirpans look like? There is a picture but what is the size of the knife there? And do Kirpans have to look like that (thin handle, curved blade)? How much can they vary? Do they have to be “blessed” somehow? Do they have to contain symbols? 94.142.238.245 ( talk) 11:02, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
This paragraph:
On 11 September 2016 a group of men, some carrying blades, during an early morning religious service occupied the foyer of a Sikh gurdwara (temple) in Leamington Spa, Warwickshire, where a wedding between a Sikh bride and a Hindu groom had been scheduled, threatening worshippers and causing the wedding to be postponed. A trustee of the temple described the men as "fanatical extremists". Police, with firearms in light of reports that the men were armed (British police do not normally carry firearms), attended, arrested 55 men, and seized "a significant number of bladed weapons", all but one of which were kirpans. There had been several previous incidents where a group of men had attempted to enter the gurdwara over the issue of mixed marriages, and been stopped by temple security staff. Gurdwara trustee Jaswat Videe said that the intruders were “absolutely wrong” to think that Sikhism prohibits interfaith marriage: "Scripture doesn’t discriminate between anyone ... The Guru says every citizen in the world is equal."[20][21] Other opinions among Sikhs strongly oppose such mixed marriages.[22]
While it is interesting gives undue weight to an incident, whereas the article is about the implement. I believe it should be trimmed radically, perhaps omitted based upon WP:NOTNEWS. It seems to me to have a place in a different article, wikilnked from here, but not in this article, certainly in this detail. Fiddle Faddle 20:26, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
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If somebody could edit the part about the swedish law that would be great, I am a bit unsure on how to do it properly myself however it is not truly factually correct. Swedish law forbids carrying certain kinds of tools that is classified as street weapons in public spaces yes, however there is no specific ban on knives in this, it is all based on the design and intended use of the tool in question (not only knives fall under this). Furthermore swedish law specifically bans ANY item that might be used as a weapon to be carried for illegal purposes, this includes knives but also screwdrivers, baseball bats, lengths of chain and other such things. This means that it is fully legal to carry anything that is not specifically designed for combat in public as long as you do not carry it for illegal purposes (illegal purposes includes defense of self or others). This is a bit of a tricky law and unfortunately not fully known by a lot of people, including some members of Law Enforcement. The law is named as follows: Lag (1988:254) om förbud beträffande knivar och andra farliga föremål
Worth noting is that swedish Law Enforcement has put up a bit of an odd description of the law on their own website which does not fully follow neither the actual text in the law or the precedents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.123.162.201 ( talk) 12:50, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
I do not have all of the details, but will look into it and then edit if someone else has not picked this up yet. In Queensland, State law prohibits the carrying of knives for self defense or to help others (as the symbolic use of the Kirpan) but allows carrying in public for religious reasons. The Kirpan is named specifically in this legislation Chris Swart ( talk) 11:11, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
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