A fact from Kind Hearts and Coronets appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 31 May 2017 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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Good work so far. One substantive error: Mama's letter to the banker does get a reply, which Louis reads: "'Madam, I am instructed by Lord Ascoyne d'Ascoyne to inform you that he is not aware of your son's existence as a member of the d'Ascoyne family.' Signed by his secretary." I changed "receives no answer" to "receives only another snub"; is that too vague? —
Tamfang (
talk)
05:12, 29 November 2015 (UTC)reply
-- Regarding the last sentence of the Plot section: "available for anyone to read." I am minded to slightly change this to end with an ellipsis to read: "available for anyone to read..."
"Its reputation has lasted well" — Sounds like something one would write in a novel rather than an encyclopaedia. Might say it like "Its has continued to receive favourable reviews over the years".
I've changed it, but "reputation" is broader than reviews suggests: it is still a film popular with viewers too, and the BFI and Times listings both fall outside reviews.
"The Mazzinis were poor but happy until Mazzini died upon seeing Louis, his newborn son, for the first time." — After seeing the film, I couldn't understand this part. All that Guinness says is "They were poor, but they had five happy and harmonious years before my arrival sent Papa off to join the heavenly choir." Was it because he was hideous looking or just die out of happiness and excitement of having a child? Better to clarify on this. (Just a clarification, no need to make any changes)
"Other filming was undertaken at Ealing Studios" — A better alternative for "Other filming"?
"The film has been adapted for radio. In March 1965 the BBC Home Service broadcast an adaptation by Gilbert Travers-Thomas, with Dennis Price reprising his role as Louis D'Ascoyne Mazzini. in 1990, BBC Radio 4 produced a new adaptation featuring Robert Powell as the entire D'Ascoyne clan, including Louis, and Timothy Bateson as the hangman, and another for BBC7 featuring Michael Kitchen as Mazzini and Harry Enfield as the D'Ascoyne family." — Reference no. 39 does not mention the year of the radio adaptation and the 1965 as well as the BBC7 versions aren't covered in it too.
Thank you very much. I've had to undo a couple of the changes you made. Firstly, "Jr." is almost never used in British English; occasionally "the younger" as a suffix, but the title of Lord can act just as well in this case. Secondly, "Marrying beneath one's station" is the norm in British English too, rather than "status", which carries little meaning in social class terms. I'll make the necessary alterations in line with your comments shortly. Thank you once again, All the best,
The Bounder (
talk)
16:30, 6 May 2017 (UTC)reply
There is little benefit to RT (in general, but particularly in what is supposed to be encyclopaedic content). The film has been criticised, if even only slightly, so to claim "100%" is doing their readers a disservice. RT is also mostly useless on anything before 2000, particularly from something from the 1940s, and the use of contemporary reviews (and subsequent poll placing) is a much better indicator than a misguided and misleading percentage figure. I think there was a film project consensus not to include them on older films, although I am uncertain about that. -
The Bounder (
talk)
18:06, 6 May 2017 (UTC)reply
I don't intend to proceed with any addition of RT information, but the limitations shown on that link are very clear for this film. –
The Bounder (
talk)
06:06, 7 May 2017 (UTC)reply
I agree with Bounder's statement on RT. Even though some contemporary reviews criticise the film, it still shows a 100% rating. Even in some cases, you can see mixed reviews like 2.5/4 being given a fresh rating sometimes and a rotten rating sometimes. Better let it be an external link. —
Ssven2Looking at you, kid07:23, 7 May 2017 (UTC)reply
Ssven2, I think I have covered all your points, but please let me know if there are any I have missed, or if you would like further work on any aspect. Thank you once again for your comments so far. All the best,
The Bounder (
talk)
07:37, 7 May 2017 (UTC)reply
286blue, stop edit warring for crying out loud. Your knee-jerk reversion also took out other constructive changes, so please do not blindly revert on such limited rationale again. There is also an additional problem that the page you are linking to contains copyright infringing material. Under the
WP:LINKVIO policy, we cannot link to sites that infringe copyright. -
2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:11F2:723B:CAC4:ABD9 (
talk)
08:38, 2 July 2021 (UTC)reply
The
BFI website says that Alec Guinness played nine assorted members of the D’Ascoyne clan and the article mentions this fact repeatedly. Other sources declare unanimously that there were only eight of them, and in the film itself (and in the “Cast" table in the article) I also find only eight. So are we reproducing a mistake of the BFI website here, or is there a ninth D’Ascoyne played by Guinness?
Jossi (
talk)
15:04, 13 January 2023 (UTC)reply
It has been suggested that an earlier Duke of Chalfont, played by Guinness, appears briefly in a flashback scene. However I think this needs proper sourcing before we can include it.
PatGallacher (
talk)
15:06, 13 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Now I've found this passage in the BFI book on Kind Hearts and Coronets by Michael Newton (p.55): "In Kind Hearts, Guinness plays eight roles, as well as being the original for the portrait of the first Duke of Chalfont, and perhaps also for the first duke and his wife in effigy on the family vault." I think this can hardly be considered as acting or playing a role, so it should be safe enough to change "nine" to "eight" in the article. --
Jossi (
talk)
17:15, 13 January 2023 (UTC)reply
I agree. The source doesn't even claim he played 9 roles, just that he "dressed up" as 9, which, assuming one of these is for a portrait, is certainly not playing a role. I'm going to change it to 8 (which is what it says later in the article anyway). -
R. fiend (
talk)
17:22, 13 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Interesting info. The source does say 'played' nine roles. I've most likely seen the film over ten times at least, but cannot recall, myself. It was on Talking Pictures recently and will be on again soon no doubt. I shall watch it with a renewed interest next time.
Halbared (
talk)
19:39, 13 January 2023 (UTC)reply
There is another possible answer. As
PatGallacher has indicated above, in the scene when Louis’ father, the opera singer, performs at Chalfont castle, there is a short shot (about five seconds at 7:21) showing the ducal family (Louis’ mother and her parents) sitting stiffly on the sofa listening and her father falling asleep. Her father, the old duke, could very well be Alec Guinness, too, though the scene is too short and static to be absolutely sure. Accordingly, in Charles Barr’s book "Ealing Studios" from 1979, Guinness’ roles are listed as "Ascoyne d’Ascoyne / Henry d’Ascoyne / Canon d’Ascoyne / Admiral d’Ascoyne / General d’Ascoyne / Lady Agatha d’Ascoyne / Lord d’Ascoyne / Ethelbert, Duke of Chalfont / the old Duke“ (p. 189 in the US edition), whereas George Perry’s "Forever Ealing" from 1981 omits the old duke. If this is indeed Guinness’ ninth role, it was obviously not credited or part of the official promotion but a fact found out later by an astute film historian. --
Jossi (
talk)
23:49, 15 January 2023 (UTC)reply
the family tree
In the archived talk page no one seems to mention that Louis kept a family tree on the back of a painting of Chalfont Castle above the fireplace in his bedroom where he kept track of who has died and whom he has murdered. We just need a sharper blow up of those scenes, one of which appears half way down this page.
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews20/kind_hearts_and_coronets_dvd_review.htm Ethelred is in the lower left corner next to his wife Mary, 2nd daughter of Henry Hollington, 5th baron of Angleford, and Agatha appears to be his sister.
Kasadad (
talk)
20:55, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply