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MaryGaulke (
talk·contribs) has been paid by Red Giant on behalf of Kenny Vance. Disclosures made below and on userpage.
December 2016
I'd like to get input from an uninvolved editor on this page's content.
On December 9th, a (new) user registered as "Amymichelle229" made a large-scale text replacement on this page. The edit summary was "users enter material that was untrue, corrected with the assistance of Kenny Vance himself".
User:bonadea left a conflict-of-interest notice on
User Talk:Amymichelle229. In response the user claimed that he/she "just took his biography from him and posted it. I'm a website manager, I don't really care about him."
My feeling was, and is, that the article isn't a very good one. I said as much on
User Talk:Amymichelle229. I think my first message was a little bit too censorious, so I tried to tone it down afterwards. My point, however, stands: neither "the assistance of Kenny Vance himself" nor "just took his biography from him and posted it" sounds like a reliable source. It doesn't do Wikipedia any good to replace a substandard article with another substandard article.
Since then the same edits have been made by two other anonymous users: 2602:304:CEAE:8BB0:28AA:639D:DE1E:66CA and the IP address 69.75.101.130. The latter address subsequently used the
User Talk:Amymichelle229 page to say that "Kenny is willing to take police action against you". Among other things, this level of excitement makes me feel skeptical about the claim that "I'm a website manager, I don't really care about him."
I have no connection with Kenny Vance. I don't take the threats seriously. I would, however, welcome any ideas from someone who hasn't been part of this as to how the article could be improved. The user(s) in question seem to feel passionately about the subject. I hope that they can be persuaded to make a more judicious and better-referenced series of edits.
The user has denied having said "I don't really care about him". Here is the diff: [1]
It would help if
User:Amymichelle229 could be a bit more specific about which part of the content is considered untrue. There is certainly a lot of unsourced content in the article, but that is true to an even greater extent of the changed version. It is clear that a lot of text is removed in the Amymichelle229/IP version, and I can also see that some info is changed (without any reference to sources), but it's always difficult and time consuming to try to work out exactly what has been changed in a major edit that changes multiple sections at once in an article.
I do agree that the current article is not great, but nor is the revised version - to some extent, the article currently looks like a fan page for the artist, with some peacock terms and rather essay like writing, and it badly needs more references. But the solution to that is not to remove the few existing refs and add more essay like text; if there are factual errors in the text those should obviously be removed, but since there is a conflict of interest involved (in that Amymichelle229 is Vance's webmaster and clearly represents his interests) it would be best if any such errors could be pointed out on this talk page, especially given
this kind of misconception of how Wikipedia works and why we need to have sources for everything. It would not be a problem for me if a lot of the current unsourced text was removed, especially if sources can't be found. As somebody who is only rather vaguely acquainted with Vance's music, I don't think it is a very useful article, it's bogged down in detail which makes it hard to sift through the information and learn anything about the person or his work. --bonadeacontributionstalk16:13, 16 December 2016 (UTC)reply
100% agree. I think there's a strong case that the best thing would be to strip the existing article down to the bedrock, leaving only what's cited or manifestly verifiable.
NewEnglandYankee (
talk)
16:20, 16 December 2016 (UTC)reply
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Diannaa🍁 (
talk)
02:21, 18 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Filmography - as actor
The list of acting roles containes several more entries than shown in IMDB - are there sourcres for the others ? --
Beardo (
talk)
00:47, 21 May 2020 (UTC)reply
COI edit requests
This
edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.
Hi! I'm a COI editor, posting on behalf of Kenny Vance with some edit requests.
Lead
Partly done In the infobox, consider adding "Musical director for Saturday Night Live" and "Music supervisor for Eddie and the Cruisers and Animal House" in the "Known for" parameter.
Update "music supervising" to "music supervising and producing" per the article body updates below.
Early career
Done Add after "Vance grew up hanging around the famous Brill Building, the Tin Pan Alley song machine, and started his first vocal group, the Harbor Lites, at 15.":
An early single, "Is That Too Much To Ask", experienced local popularity due to radio promotion by disc jockey
Cousin Brucie.[1]
Done Add a ref for "He then formed another group and auditioned for
Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller, who signed them to United Artists Records, and named the group Jay and the Americans.": [2]
Jay and the Americans
Done Add after "Jay and the Americans released fifteen albums, and their first hit was "She Cried", which was released in 1962.":
They had many other hit singles in the 60s, and started their own publishing and production company, JATA Enterprises.
to
They had many other hit singles and an album, Capture the Moment,[1] in the 60s, blending doo wop harmonies with contemporary sounds.[5] They also started their own publishing and production company, JATA Enterprises.[2]
Update
Their last release was in 1971 and the group broke up in 1973.
In 1967, the songwriting duo of
Walter Becker and
Donald Fagen came to the Brill Building to sell their songs, and ended up knocking on Vance's door. Vance liked what he heard, and offered to manage them. The duo arranged horn and string sections for Jay and the Americans and toured with them as bassist and keyboardist, eventually recording demos and masters with Vance in 1969.
to
In 1967, the songwriting duo of
Walter Becker and
Donald Fagen came to the Brill Building to sell their songs, and ended up knocking on Vance's door.[8] Vance liked what he heard, and offered to manage and produce them.[9][2] The duo arranged horn and string sections for Jay and the Americans recordings[2] and toured with them as bassist and keyboardist.[9] Vance produced the soundtrack album for the movie You've Got to Walk It Like You Talk It or You'll Lose That Beat for Becker and Fagen in 1971.[10][2]
Done Add to end of section:
In Steely Dan FAQ: All That's Left to Know About This Elusive Band, Anthony Robustelli wrote, "For all intents and purposes, Vance should be credited as the man who discovered the core of Steely Dan."[2]: 17–18
Film and television
Done Update
After this, Vance began doing session work, producing, and writing music for movies.
became the program's musical director in 1980–1981.
to
became the program's musical director in 1980–1981,[14] booking the show's musical acts.[15]
Done Add to end of section:
In addition to his appearance in American Hot Wax, Vance has also played bit parts in films including Eddie and the Cruisers, Billy Bathgate, and Hurlyburly. He also appeared in six
Woody Allen films.[8]
1990s-on
Done Update
Since then the group has released five more albums, "Lover's Island", Countdown to Love", "Dancing and Romancing", "Oceans of Time", and their holiday album, "Mr. Santa".
to
Since then the group has released eight more albums, including "Lovers Island", Countdown to Love", "Dancing and Romancing", "Oceans of Time", and their holiday album, "Mr. Santa".[16]
Done Add before "Vance did not perform from 2014 to 2017 for health reasons.":
Done Add after "Vance did not perform from 2014 to 2017 for health reasons.":
Kenny Vance and the Planotones released a new album, "For Your Love", in 2020. During the
COVID-19 pandemic, Vance reunited with members of the original Planotones to record "Brave Companions", a song he wrote in tribute
first responders, with proceeds donated to the First Responders Children's Foundation.[12] He also directed a documentary, Heart & Soul, about music performers of the doo wop era.
Doc NYC selected the film for its "Only In New York" program.[22]
Vance has received recognition for his role in the history of doo wop and music.
Dion DiMucci told
Elmore Magazine in 2008, "Kenny Vance...sings like there's a 19-year-old angel inside of him. ... Kenny Vance expresses the heart and soul of doo wop."[23] In 2009, Brooklyn Paper called Vance the "
Dylan of Doo-Wop".[24] Radio disc jockey
Jerry Blavat said in 2011 that Vance has "the ability to take a song, which was a hit in the '50s or early '60s and with his style make it fashionable for a new audience that hears it in a different way."[25]
Thank you for making your suggestions so clearly and properly - something which we see all too rarely on this site. I have taken them on board at this point in good faith - they seem to me to be well referenced - although other editors may well wish to edit them a little more for tone, significance, etc.
Ghmyrtle (
talk)
08:28, 7 August 2022 (UTC)reply
Thanks so much for your help (and the kind words)! One more question if you have a moment – do you think {{
More footnotes}} is still necessary at the top of the article? This flag has been up almost seven years, and the inline citations have improved quite a bit since then. Thanks again!
Mary Gaulke (
talk)
19:47, 7 August 2022 (UTC)reply