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The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Oppose: The article on
Kenneth Thomson, 2nd Baron Thomson of Fleet, says he is "in Canada known as Ken Thomson". He is probably not the only other one who is sometimes referred to that way, but that one seems like enough to require disambiguation. The Baron (the richest person in Canada and among the top-ten wealthiest people in the world, with 5537 page views in the last 90 days) seems much more noteworthy than the footballer (with 345 page views in the last 90 days), without even needing to consider the page views of redirects (e.g., the redirect Kenneth Thomson, with 2442 page views in the last 90 days, and the redirect Kenneth Roy Thomson, 2nd Baron Thomson of Fleet, with 1048 page views in the last 90 days). The footballer has no redirects. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
00:02, 19 April 2015 (UTC)reply
1. Since the 2nd Baron Thomson of Fleet was born, educated, lived his entire life in, and died in Canada and was known as "Ken" there, then the main title header should be
Ken Thomson, 2nd Baron Thomson of Fleet or, since he preferred to not use the title, the main title header should be simply
Ken Thomson, with the other header,
Kenneth Thomson, 2nd Baron Thomson of Fleet becoming a redirect. As things stand now, however, the footballer is the only subject of a Wikipedia biographical entry whose main title header states "Ken", while the disambiguation page's main header is still "Kenneth Thomson", not "Ken Thomson".
2. For a wider perspective on disambiguation page naming practices, it may be useful to glance at the neighboring
Kenneth Thompson disambiguation page. Among the usual mix of Kenneths, Kens and Kennys, there is only one "official" Ken,
Ken Thompson, and he does not redirect to the
Kenneth Thompson disambiguation page, nor is he given an unnecessary parenthetical qualifier, but he is permitted to stand on his own as the only "
Ken Thompson", even if all the other Kenneth Thompsons may also be known as "Ken" (to make the similarity even closer, analogous to the footballer,
Kenny Thomson, among those listed on the
Kenneth Thompson page, one will find a footballer named
Kenny Thompson).
3. For a still further perspective, it may be equally useful to consult another disambiguation page,
Ken Carpenter. Each of the five Ken Carpenters has a parenthetical qualifier, but the sole "Kenneth" among them,
Kenneth Carpenter, is, again, allowed to stand alone, without the need of a qualifier and without the need to make "Kenneth Carpenter" a redirect to the
Ken Carpenter disambiguation page.
—Roman Spinner(talk)(contribs)03:52, 19 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I think you are missing what is stated in
WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT and perhaps
WP:COMMONNAME and
WP:DAB, "The fact that an article has a different title is not a factor in determining whether a topic is primary.", and Wikipedia goes by common names and likely search terms, not just formal names, exact matches, and cumbersome titles. The baron was known as "Ken Thomson", as stated in the article about him. That is enough to make it clear that the footballer is not the primary "Ken Thomson". In fact the baron is probably the primary "Ken Thomson" on Wikipedia. There are also some other people who might be worth thinking about – Kenneths, Kens, Kennys, Thompsons, etc. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
14:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)reply
1. I have already addressed those arguments in my comment below, as well as some of my comments above. As a start, in historical terms, relative importance of the two individuals is not in question since the Baron is, without any doubt, a much more notable personality than the footballer. The main point remains that the footballer is the sole individual specifically named "Ken" among those listed within Wikipedia's
Kenneth Thomson (disambiguation) page and no written explanation in the Baron's dab page entry (such as "Best known as Ken Thomson") has been offered to justify the deviation from standard naming practices as exemplified by the disambiguation pages mentioned above which list the stand-alone
Ken Thompson or the stand-alone
Kenneth Carpenter.
Strong oppose clearly the baron is the primary topic of "Ken Thompson" not this footballer. People should consider that Wikipedia articles only carry one article name, but that does not mean that the topics themselves only have one name. And the fact that a particular topic occupies a particular disambiguated title on Wikipedia is not evidence it is the primary topic, if no other disambiguated title has the same base name. Wikipedia is not the sum whole of the world, and everything in the world does not each have only a single name. --
65.94.43.89 (
talk)
04:17, 19 April 2015 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.