This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cycling, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
cycling on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CyclingWikipedia:WikiProject CyclingTemplate:WikiProject Cyclingcycling articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Minnesota, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to
Minnesota on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MinnesotaWikipedia:WikiProject MinnesotaTemplate:WikiProject MinnesotaMinnesota articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Olympics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Olympics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OlympicsWikipedia:WikiProject OlympicsTemplate:WikiProject OlympicsOlympics articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's sport (and women in sports), a WikiProject which aims to improve coverage of women in sports on Wikipedia. For more information, visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion.Women's sportWikipedia:WikiProject Women's sportTemplate:WikiProject Women's sportWomen's sport articles
This article has been
automatically rated by a
bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the |auto= parameter.
User:Lugnuts I have already provided the archiveurl for folks who dont have access accross the paywall. You can read the above WaPo article here
[1]. You may need to disable your adblocks (if any), let me know if the link did not work for you. regards. --DBigXrayᗙ12:44, 5 September 2019 (UTC)reply
Well, readers shouldn't be shocked by "committed suicide," but perhaps we should bear in mind that Catlin is
survived by a (fraternal triplet) sister and brother with whom she was very close, and by cycling friends. Under the circumstances, I suggest the slightly softer but unequivocal "took her own life." –
Sca (
talk)
16:47, 11 March 2019 (UTC)reply
The article you are linking to includes "Catlin’s brother, Colin, wrote Friday on Facebook that 'my sister Kelly committed suicide last night.'
[2]Bus stop (
talk)
17:01, 11 March 2019 (UTC)reply
There may be a difference between national versions of English. I've absorbed the concern that "committed" places the focus on the illegality of the act; therefore I find "died by suicide" preferable on NPOV grounds. Calling it a euphemism, however, is just plain wrong. "Took her own life" is circumlocutory, in my view, but equally not a euphemism. However, whatever wording we use right there, we don't need to state "in California" in effect twice, both at the start and when we come to mention that it was on the Stanford campus, I also don't think we need to attribute to a family member (though others may disagree), and I made several improvements to the referencing in that paragraph, including naming the Washington Post reference, which I had reused at earlier points, distinguishing between a website/publication (italicized) and a publisher (not italicized) by changing which citation template whatchamacallit was used, adding the actual date for a reference rather than merely saying when the editor who added it had consulted it ... and so I find
Natureium's repeated wholesale reverts misguided. Please learn to just switch out the small group of words to which you have an objection. Or at least to preview.
Yngvadottir (
talk)
17:44, 11 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Natureium has changed the phrase to state "Catlin died on March 8, 2019 at her university residence in California. According to her sister, she committed suicide months after suffering a
concussion.". This is acceptable to me and I hope to everyone else too. Please do not change this any further without discussion. --DBigXrayᗙ18:00, 11 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Can we explain the connection to the concussion? I understand that some people object to avoiding 'committed suicide' (although to be fair all the sources do actually say 'died by') but does anyone object to "had suffered a
concussion months earlier and "had not been the same mentally since" or similar? Just saying she committed suicide and had suffered a concussion doesn't seem to make the connection the original quote was implicitly explicitly making.
valereee (
talk)
18:36, 11 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Praxidicae, is it really synth to report accurately what the sister said? She connected them. I don't have a strong opinion, but if we're mentioning the sister connected the two, why wouldn't we mention how she was connecting them?
valereee (
talk)
19:21, 11 March 2019 (UTC)reply
One person's personal observation being asserted as "She had a concussion which caused her to commit suicide" is absolutely synth.
Praxidicae (
talk)
19:21, 11 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Praxidicae, then maybe don't mention it at all? We're turning something that was explicitly said into something implicit? Idk...just seems llike we aren't reporting accurately.
valereee (
talk)
19:23, 11 March 2019 (UTC)reply
I don't see why it's current phrasing is an issue. But adding any more detail about the connection between the concussion and suicide without actual sources aside from one report of her family saying so would be synthesis. That's what I'm saying.
Praxidicae (
talk)
19:26, 11 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Praxidicae, okay, like I said, no strong opinion. I clicked to the source to see why the two had been mentioned in the same sentence, I guess other readers can too.
valereee (
talk)
19:33, 11 March 2019 (UTC)reply
DBigXray, the German Wiki
article says Catlin attempted suicide in January and since then had been in the care of a doctor or doctors: "(Schon im Januar 2019 hatte sie versucht, Suizid zu begehen und war seitdem in ärztlicher Behandlung gewesen.)." This statement is footnoted to a Washington Post story that I haven't been able to read due to their paywall: Cindy Boren: U.S. Olympic cycling medalist Kelly Catlin dies at 23. In: The Washington Post. 11. März 2019, abgerufen am 11. März 2019. –
Sca (
talk)
13:27, 12 March 2019 (UTC)reply
March 7, is what the university reported. Several reliable sources mentioned it as 7. Some media sources have got it wrong as 8--DBigXrayᗙ15:38, 12 March 2019 (UTC)reply