A fact from Jim Watkins (businessman) appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 September 2020 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that some have speculated that Jim Watkins(pictured) is working with "Q", the anonymous poster behind the
QAnon conspiracy theory, or that Watkins himself is Q?
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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
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... that some have speculated that Jim Watkins is working with "Q", the anonymous poster behind the
QAnon conspiracy theory, or that Watkins himself is Q?
Protocol: "For seasoned QAnon watchers, perhaps the biggest significance behind the unveiling of the PAC is that it seems to cement the connection between Watkins, 8Chan's owner, and the Q poster himself... 'Watkins always made it seem like there was distance between him and Q, that Q was just this guy posting on his forums, that he let Q post because he's a free speech absolutist. By launching this PAC he is fully admitting that he is working with whoever is posting as Q and he is now part of the grift that is QAnon,' said Mike Rains, a QAnon researcher who is behind the Poker and Politics Twitter feed, which follows the Qanon movement and debunks many of its claims. Argentino has studied the changes in Q's syntax, grammar and selection of topics over the past three years since the first post in 2017, and believes Watkins has been posting as Q since last fall."
Daily Dot "There was already speculation that Q and Watkins were linked, as when 8chan went down in August 2019, the Q poster didn’t make their drops somewhere else, instead waiting around for months while 8chan found a new service provider and rebranded as 8kun."
Playboy "'The most important change in mind-set was that I came to believe Jim and Ron do not operate 8chan in good faith but rather to twisted ends,' he says. 'Their actions continue to betray them—for example, helping QAnon post and making sure QAnon’s identity would remain stable during the transition from 8chan to 8kun, which they did for no one else.'"
The Atlantic "Fredrick Brennan’s theory is that Jim and his son Ron, who is the site’s administrator, knew 8kun needed Q to attract users. 'I definitely, definitely, 100 percent believe that Q either knows Jim or Ron Watkins, or was hired by Jim or Ron Watkins,' Brennan told me.... Every faction of QAnon has its own hunches, alliances, and interpersonal dramas related to the question of Q’s identity. The theories fit into three broad groups.... This second category includes Brennan’s idea that the Watkinses are now paying Q, or are paying someone to carry on as Q, or are even acting as Q themselves."
Comment: There is another potential hook in this article about
2channel, but because the article on
2channel was just so recently featured in DYK I didn't suggest it. Sorry this is a little bit late—I had heard there was a news story to be published about Watkins soon that might make for some quality sourcing, but it seems it hasn't yet come out.
This interesting article has been nominated two days late, but I think we can overlook that. It is plenty long enough. The image is suitably licensed, the hook facts are cited inline, the article is neutral and I detected no copyright issues. A QPQ has been done.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
05:29, 13 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Business Owner?
It states he owns many businesses in the Philippines? How? Is he Filipino? Only Filipinos can own a business. And since he is about to be banned from ever entering the country, he cannot be a citizen.
120.29.109.137 (
talk)
14:56, 27 May 2021 (UTC)reply
I know very little about business ownership laws in the Philippines, but The Washington Post describes his various businesses in
this article. The businesses (and the source) predate his immigration issues; I am not sure if anything has changed as a result of that.
GorillaWarfare (she/her •
talk)
17:44, 27 May 2021 (UTC)reply
The thing is, he has applied for citizenship. But clearly never attained it, as they are blacklisting him as an undesirable alien. Only citizens can own businesses here. So his immigration issues have nothing to do with anything in that regards. I am a Permanent Resident Immigrant of 13 years, and I cannot own a business here at all. I can't even sell soup at my house, or I risk arrest and lifetime ban.
120.29.109.137 (
talk)
15:15, 29 May 2021 (UTC)reply
@
GorillaWarfare:(I have a COI.)120.29.109.137 is right. All of Watkins' businesses were actually owned by proxies—usually his wife Liziel, with him having a 40% stake. However, he was Chairman of the Board on all of his businesses, and Liziel's title was “Corporate Secretary”…in practice, Liziel had little to no say in how the businesses operated, with the most say of hers being in the café and pig farm, but even then, her say was limited. In terms of the most valuable properties, such as especially
5channel, but also 8chan, the domains were all hosted overseas and registered as being owned by US corporations—meaning, that if Liziel were to become a hostile shareholder, she couldn't actually assert property claims, Jim could just change the domain record. However, with all this said, given Watkins' departure from the Philippines, a lot of this is now moot. All the businesses have closed. I would recommend that you add a [sic] tag after Emerald Pedistal, though, because an editor in good faith may think that this is a misspelling. It is, but on purpose: Watkins thought it would stymie lawsuits, the name is actually Pedistal and not Pedestal, and it was a holding company for his in-country assets like the pig farm and café, but also his condos (it threatened to sue me for alleged damage, which I ignored).
Psiĥedelisto (
talk •
contribs) please alwaysping!12:32, 27 September 2021 (UTC)reply
@
GorillaWarfare: I doubt there'd be any citations for this specific information, only general information about Philippine law and how some expatriates use their wives to circumvent it, but nothing specific to Watkins. However, given he wasn't a citizen, seems
WP:COMMONSENSE it's talking about him. The Manila Times citizenship petition also contains some information about his business holdings at that time.
Psiĥedelisto (
talk •
contribs) please alwaysping!23:37, 29 September 2021 (UTC)reply
@
GorillaWarfare: Honestly, that's the best you can do, besides perhaps a much abridged version of this: The
1987 Constitution of the Philippines contains many restrictions on foreign ownership of property in its Article 7, §11, limiting it to "sixty per centum" in favor of Filipino citizens and corporations owned by them. While the
Congress of the Philippines has carved out limited exceptions such as for
POGOs, the country is considered as having the most restrictive environment for foreign investment in Southeast Asia, only sometimes considered ahead of communist
Vietnam; even lawyers attempting to remain on the right side of the law have fallen afoul of this, such as in the famous cases involving
Rappler Inc.[1][2] Honestly, I'm now considering writing an article like
History of foreign property ownership in the Philippines. Worthwhile, notable topic, you think? Please help w/naming the article if you've time as well〜Psiĥedelisto (
talk •
contribs) please alwaysping!00:36, 30 September 2021 (UTC)reply
This
edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.
@
GorillaWarfare:(I have a COI.) I suggest reordering these two sentences in the lead:
He began providing
domain and
hosting services to 8chan in 2014, and became the site's official owner and operator the same year.[2] Watkins became the operator of 2channel after he seized it in 2014 from its creator and original owner,
Hiroyuki Nishimura.[3][4]
to read instead (new words bolded):
In February 2014, Watkins became the operator of 2channel after he seized it from its creator and original owner,
Hiroyuki Nishimura.[3][4] He began providing
domain and
hosting services to 8chan later that year, and became the site's official owner and operator by year's end.[2]
I think that chronological sorting is better. This is more up to you or any other interested editor, but I'd also suggest putting § 2channel above § 8chan in § Online anonymous communities for the same reason.
Psiĥedelisto (
talk •
contribs) please alwaysping!12:41, 27 September 2021 (UTC)reply
I recently came across
this article in the NYT, which covers two studies by forensic linguists who conclude that it's his son Ron Watkins who took over as Qanon, not Jim Watkins. Given that the NYT quotes several other experts who express confidence in the linguists' methodology. I think we should reframe the QAnon section around his support and promotion of Qanon, and trim the speculation that floated around before this study was published.
DFlhb (
talk)
19:51, 29 April 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Louis P. Boog: regarding
this edit, the source does say that Jim Watkins is "widely believed to be behind QAnon", but it doesn't say he's believed to be QAnon based on "considerable linguistic and forensic evidence" and his "seeming admission in an HBO documentary".
The source says: Despite considerable linguistic and forensic evidence to the contrary—as well as a seeming admission in an HBO documentary—Watkins has continued to deny that he or his son, Ron, are behind the QAnon conspiracy. i.e. it lumps both Watkinses together in a slightly contorted sentence. But both of the pieces of evidence are about Ron Watkins, not Jim Watkins. The forensic linguistic evidence is about the son (linked above), and the HBO admission is also from the son (see
here).
DFlhb (
talk)
11:50, 30 April 2023 (UTC)reply
I think the bigger issue is how to reframe that whole section. "Widely believed" was clearly true and should be covered, but I think it should be reframed in past tense, since the forensic linguist teams have since looked at both the son and father and concluded it was the son with 93% and 99% accuracy. I'd skip the Skeptical Inquirer source entirely since it uses present tense rather than past tense.
DFlhb (
talk)
12:19, 30 April 2023 (UTC)reply