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I am neither European nor Japanese, so I am relatively objective. But, is it just me or is the article, particularly the last article EXTREMELY biased towards a European perspective. I realize none of you will agree because of well...who you people are, but just letting you know what the article sounds like. p.s. I don't know if this is a European or white thing, I doubt the latter, but words such as "extremely exaggerated" are not very objective. -- Yellowfiver 00:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
The article is currently undergoing revision. If you'd be kind enough to point out specific elements of bias, we could try to get them cleaned up. Thanks! - xiliquiern Talk 02:36, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
In what way biased? -- Unsigned comment by User:Rebavi
Is this particular section useful? Drive-by racist accusations directed at "white Europeans" without any substance ever provided. Can we just delete this? Mars11 23:28, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
The article on the Jintachi says that it was invented in 1550 and was a predecessor to the katana.
There is a line in this article that needs removing, but I can't see where to edit it out.
The text is:
"katanas can also be forged by using the flesh of goats with paper. the resaulting is the best katana EVER!"
And is located just above the Decoration section. However, when I go to edit the page, this text does not appear.
I see no reason or purpose whatsoever of a "Famous Historic katana users"-section. Sword-smiths yes, sword-users no. Its like having a "famous pistol-users" section on the pistol article: simply too many to name to make it even remotely interesting. It is a waste of space. Fred26 11:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
The section is completely OR, not sourced(only provided link does not mention anything said in the section) and is incorrect in the history of Katana. The section compare the shorter version 打刀 with single handed or one and a half handed swords, where earlier Katanas like 太刀 are generally longer, weighted similar to two handed swords like Claymore and is designed to fight against Armoured opponents. 野太刀 and 大太刀 are even longer and heavier(up to 220cm in length) which is nowhere near the discription of Not effective against Armour. What I have said here is sourced from the Japanese and Chinese wiki, may not be the perfect source, but is still way better than the unsourced OR of the removed section. MythSearcher talk 05:32, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure when or why this article was promoted to GA class, but it appears to never have been through peer review, or ever underwent GA review. In my opinion, it fails to meet a number of GA criteria. Please visit WP:GA/R to support or oppose delisting. Bradford44 04:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
It went Featured article review in February 2005 which it failed for a number of reasons. It was nominated for GA status 1st of August 2006 and promoted without comment two weeks later. In my opinion the FA request was very premature not only with respect to the problems but also due to the fact that the article was far from stable (read lots of contention). Several of the points in the original rejection were not addressed. I would delist and submit the article for peer review before renominating for GA-status. Peter Rehse 05:52, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Since there was no dissenting opinion and several supporting delisting - I've delisted this article as a Good Article. Peter Rehse 08:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
From the original nomination we have the following with the numbers refering to Wikipedia:What is a good article? I'm recommending this article for delisting, for failure to meet the following GA criteria:
This article is in need of quite a bit of polish, and needs many more citations before qualifying for GA status, in my opinion. Bradford44 04:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I wouldn't call nihonto from the 700's "Katana"; they were generally tachi (or ken or tanto). "Katana" is a term and a style of sword (and how one carries the sword) that originated around the 1400's. So I'll change 700 back to 1400. While this article verges on being about nihonto in general, the title is "Katana". — jesup 21:06, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
The term from the 1400 starts out as uchigatana, and katana is actually an earlier word used in the 1200s to describe a fighting knife, what we now refer to as tanto. Dr. Sato actually describes it as a rather general term. Katana took over from uchigatana as tachi were phased out heading to 1500. Uchigatana is often confused with katate-uchi, which is the typical one-handed fighting sword of the period. Not sure how much of that is ok to migrate to the article. Mars11 22:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Err... Katana is a pretty general term. It is in fact the Japanese original word for curved blades before using the kanji pronounciation as to or chi(currently all 3 pronouciation carries the same kanji). MythSearcher talk 01:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
I own copyright on some high quality professional sword photographs, and would be willing to grant use here if someone gives me a heads up on how to do so. Mars11 22:38, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I apologize for taking so long to get to this, but I finally have. Thank you for the help on the Wikipedia Commons, I've uploaded a photograph.
The sword in question is by Norishige, who was a co-pupil of Shintogo Kunimitsu and worked side by side with Masamune. He is mentioned in the Masamune article. The sword is done in Soshu style, with traits also common to Masamune and Go Yoshihiro. It was made around 1320 most likely, towards the end of Norishige's active work period. The high res version clearly illustrates the grain in the steel, it is itame, a particular kind called matsukawa hada that is typical of Norishige. The hamon shows very vivid activities in nie. The grooves on the sword are futasuji-hi. I chose this picture because the sword obtained the highest distinction from the Nihonto Bijutsu Hozon Token Kai (Tokubetsu Juyo Token, one of about 800 or so to achieve this rating out of the several million swords that exist), the smith is of the highest rank, it is very similar to work of Masamune, and the activities are so brilliant they are easily visible in the photograph so it becomes a good reference picture. It was originally made as a tachi, and is shortened for use as a katana. It has been shortened at least twice in its life, possibly more times if the bottom mekugiana is not the original. The photograph is done in Japanese reference style, illustrating the monouchi and kissaki up close, as well as the nakago, and then an image showing the sugata. That is the information on the sword. I don't want to be the person to decide what is valid and what is not valid in terms of the scope of the article or if the photograph should be used, as I'm the author. It's a good photo though so I hope someone adds it. Mars11 02:06, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Some of these links really don't need to be here, namely the Zanpakutō link. This is an article about a real Japanese weapon and the Japanese culture, NOT about anime shows and the weapons the animators imagine. Darkskul 22:08, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
I deleted it a while back forget to mention it. Dont even ask about stuff like that just delete it in the future. April 16 2007
Under Use there is the following paragraph:
This is not only unsourced, but also fails to explain why the spear wouldn't be the primary battlefield weapon during the Kamakura period, and it also seems to suggest that the spear was out of vogue ever since. Which of course was not the case. My suggestions would be something in order of
Am I being unreasonable? Tsuka 10:38, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
The Japanese article this article linked to is Nihonto instead of Katana, yet there is another nihonto article, which serves almost no purpose. Also, this article basically deals with all sorts of nihonto instead of katana, and the kanji 刀 in fact is pronouced as either to, chi or katana and are basically the same thing. I suggest merging the nihonto article with this one, and edit the article to reflect the actual nihonto meaning. (which means a total revamp on both articles). MythSearcher talk 09:09, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. After all, the article is a stub about a sword that is unrecognized to several people, so the article should be merged. Lesser Shadow 20:32, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Agree that article serves no purpose and is confusing Rebavi 20:32, 2 october 2007 (UTC)
I just went through the history section and fixed several things which became undone at some point. For instance, the article was stating that civil war broke out in the 12th century, causing the Kamakura period developments to be thrown away. I think I may have written the original a long time back, I forget... but it is the 15th century Sengoku Jidai that caused this to happen (and it's a bit of a simplification as things had been in slight decline). Anyway, 12th century predates the Kamakura period as well, so it's not possible for civil war in the 12th century to throw away developments of the 13th and 14th centuries. This is the typical kind of error that has been introduced. Overall the Early History section is reading very rough (there are a series of disjointed references to the 15th century for instance that follow each other) and I think it needs to be rewritten, just to adopt better style.
I couldn't find in the article (I may not have read it well enough) reference to the phrase "Katana" being used as a way of describing how the sword was worn, as opposed to a name for the sword itself. It was mentioned earlier on this page (discussion) however. Am I incorrect in believing this information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.31.33.21 ( talk)
yes, i saw that as well and thought that was strange...
I was always led to believe that it was illegal in pre-industrial Japan for women to own or wield katanas, but I have found nothing about this in this article. I'd say that's a pretty important fact about the katana's history, especially since women and katanas have now become so synonymous in recent popular culture ( Azumi, Kill Bill, Sky High etc.) And there would also have been a date when women owning katanas in Japan was legalised, which would also be an important historical fact. I'm sure there are other users here who have better knowledge and resources to research and include this in the article than I do, so I would humbly ask you to look into it please? Arigato! 79.75.100.187 23:33, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I thought that historically women of all classes (even Samurai wives) were prohibited from wielding katanas because it was a "man's weapon", which is why women trained with naginata glaives and never with bokkens, shinai or katanas. You'll see this reflected in some of the more traditional Samurai films from the 50s-70s, in which the female warriors never carry katana swords (including Lady Snowblood, Oyuki, Sayaka Yagyu and Kaori Yagyu from the Babycart series). They carry thinner, shorter, lighter swords with no tsuba, which would have been a more feminine and acceptable sword for women to use at the time. You are right about sources being very hard to find though 79.75.20.247 15:04, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
in fact i beleive you are all incorrect. women were considered samurai just as much as men and needed to know how to commit seppuku and defend themselves from capture just as well. also the introduction of the naginata as a "womens weapon" is a gendai budo development. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rebavi ( talk • contribs) 17:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
As a final note, it should be noted that some companies and independent smiths outside of Japan produce katana as well, with varying levels of quality. Also all katana swords have a groove in them known as a blood line. The point of these blood line'swas when someone was stabbed with a katana they usually tended to squirt blood and possibly blind the samurai. The blood line gave the blood an outlet it would run down the sword almost to the hilt and the drip or flow to the gound Sincerely Ghost a.k.a Ninja
Needs revision and cleanup. -- 124.170.182.150 08:10, 24 October 2007 (UTC)