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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
I thought that was a pretty clear primary topic, I don't know about you. Just like with
Obama,
Churchill,
Stalin, or even
Gretzky, when there's this lopsided a ratio in notability and popularity, I don't think we need the whole requested move process. So I redirected
Jágr to
Jaromír Jágr. Someone complained on my talk page so I posted this RM. I strongly oppose the move and support keeping the pages
Jágr and
Jagr as redirects to
Jaromír Jágr. Lol.
Red Slash23:55, 13 August 2013 (UTC)reply
Red Slash was requested politely by
WP:BRD to restore the move to
Jágr (disambiguation) and should have first done so. One of the reasons for doing so, apart from what
WP:BRD says, and that he was asked to do so, is that
Jágr is evidently a Czech surname article - not a disambiguation page. I have temporarily moved it to
Jágr (surname) though am not clear what should happen next. Per WP:BRD rather than arguing a RM from this starting position, the RM should be closed and Red Slash can put in a RM properly. There are several good reasons for following process, and minimizing disruption and wrong-end RMs from WP:RM ... also
WP:BRD and process are more important than the actual surname list.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
00:55, 14 August 2013 (UTC)reply
Oppose NEUTRAL - since this RM starts from
Jágr. No policy or evidence has been presented above to justify this move, or justify that "Jágr" is a
mononym. And this surname is clearly not comparable with a name frequently used as a
mononym such as "Stalin." As for
Talk:Gretzky (disambiguation) there's no reason for that either, see RM there.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
00:24, 14 August 2013 (UTC)reply
Keep Jagr as a redirect clearly Jagr most commonly refers to Jaromir. The nominator listed several other examples of similar redirects. I don't see what the big deal is.
Hot Stoptalk-
contribs01:17, 14 August 2013 (UTC)reply
Keep Jagr as a redirect There are only 3 Jagrs on the English Wikipedia, and Jaromir is obviously the most well known. I don't see a huge problem with this redirect. Canuck89(have words with me) 03:06, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
?? I am beyond baffled. I am flabbergasted. What is the point? Seriously, what is the point?? 100 to 1, In ictu oculi. 100 to 1.
Krzyzewski,
Obama and a host of other surnames where the primary topic ain't the surname all go straight to the article the reader is almost certainly looking for. Again, 100 to 1.
Red Slash04:03, 14 August 2013 (UTC)reply
Yes I saw the guideline about an hour ago, which is why I mentioned
Hitler on the other RM. But the issue again is the notability needed to acquire mononym status.
* Less specific forms of names, for which the article subject is still the primary topic. For example, Hitler redirects to Adolf Hitler, whereas Johnson is a disambiguation page rather than a redirect, since no Johnson is regarded as the primary topic for that name.
Look at the pageview stats - Jaromir gets 400x the pageviews as compared to the other Jagrs. I'd say that satfisfies
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC in terms of disambiguation, regardless of whether this is a surname. Canuck89(have words with me) 08:08, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
User:Djsasso - fair enough, I changed the oppose to neutral, but cannot in conscience fully follow you as
Talk:Gretzky (disambiguation). I don't believe anyone outside Canada has heard of this player and therefore he is not of the same mononym-level notability status as Gretzky. Also retain some concern that we'll be playing "hunt the most notable sportsman" with every surname article on en.wp. And suggest that moving surname articles away from the surname always require a RM.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
17:20, 14 August 2013 (UTC)reply
Maybe, be that as it may I don't see "Jagr" being used as free currency like "Gretzky" (which I admit was a wrong call) in print sources, and unlike Gretzky, Biden or Mondale this isn't a name unique to one family. This is a common Czech family name as
cs:Jágr indicates and a surname article is more appropriate. This will clearly pass, but I do not think it should be unanimous, or all hell could break loose on surname articles. This sort of move needs to go via a RM. It's quite a claim to say that one person's uses of his/her surname is more important than the surname itself.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
11:29, 18 August 2013 (UTC)reply
Sigh, I didn't think that primary topic really had anything to do with importance. Can I quote? "A topic is primary for a term, with respect to usage, if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term." And this move's adherence to that standard is something I will defend to the death (metaphorically!!).
Red Slash23:10, 19 August 2013 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.