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Why was the Northeast Pennsylvania English article merged with this one? It's a distinct dialect from the one described in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alistoriv ( talk • contribs) 03:00, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
I agree... The Northeast PA dialect is far different from these ones. It is a totally different pronunciation of words. The words are pronounced much more nasally. Football3434 ( talk) 02:45, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
If South Bend is out of the included area, then someone needs to change the map to not include South Bend, Indiana and Michiana. cntrlaltdel33t
This article needs to be renamed Inland American English - as it's not representative on Central Canadian English. There is no relationship between Central Canadian English and the English of the region discussed in this article.
I have doubts about Neil Armstrong and John Glenn. They weren't born in the part of Ohio that has the shift. If it can be proven somehow, then fine. 208.104.45.20 02:52, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Okay, looking at the article, I'm thinking that it'd be best not to continue piling in every notable person vaguely connected to the 40+ million person region covered by this dialect. Rather include a few, relatively clear and unambiguous examples that most are familiar with and can playback in their heads. I'm pulling an existing paragraph of supposed speakers and copying it here:
For now, Hillary Clinton, Michael Moore, John Belushi, Suze Orman, for better or worse, impress me as relatively unambiguous examples that many current readers can "hear" easily, aren't overly influenced by other accents and dialects (at least when Hillary isn't giving a speech in the South...), and impress the reader with the features of the dialect and accents.
None of the claims, however, have cited sources, which is a problem. Additions and changes should have some basis cited, as there are many notable people who speak this in this dialect to varying degrees. Persons who actually grew up in the region would be less controversial inclusions, as well. -- RVJ ( talk) 16:40, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
I have lived in Cleveland for 20 years and Milwaukee for 4. The accent in Milwaukee fits this description. Cleveland does not. I would put Cleveland together with Pittsburg in terms of accent.
I mean no offense, but I have to agree with AJD on this one. He is right. Pittsburgh has its own thing going on. Linguists like William Labov have done lots of research about this, and they know what they are talking about. 208.104.45.20 18:58, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
The map's caption specifically excludes Erie Pennsylvania. I think it should be modified to reflect that Inland Northern American English is spoken across coastal northwest Pennsylvania. Dzmijewski ( talk) 21:23, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
That comment was not sourced and I have never read that in any literature about American English dialects. So I have removed it until someone provides and academic source. Azalea pomp 03:13, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
This article which is also sourced lists another origin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_American Azalea pomp 04:49, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
In the December 2005 issue of National Geographic, an article by Naomi Schwartz includes a regional dialect map of the United States which displays the Inland North dialect map extending through some of central Illinois down to St. Louis. Shouldn't this information be added? Note, St. Louis people don't say pop, they say soda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.161.203.163 ( talk) 03:59, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
I question whether he could have the Northern Cities Vowel Shift in his speech, if that is your definition of being a speaker of this dialect. The trigger of this shift is the diphthongization of /æ/ into /ɪə/ (æ-tensing), a change identified as early as the 1960s. He was born in 1945. That means he would have already been 15 years old in 1960. I'm quite sure that we learn our dialect earlier on in our development. I imagine he speaks the way people in Chicago spoke before the Northern Cities Vowel Shift. I could be wrong though. The shift could have began earlier. That's just not what it says in the NCVS article on Wikipedia. 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 04:22, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks AJD. Diction is precise and important on Wikipedia. I should have known that. 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 21:11, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
But I have noticed here in the Detroit area that a lot of two syllable words whose second syllable is begins with a "t" are pronounced like d's - for example "water" is said like "wader" or sometimes "wad-der", same goes for "better". Or is this common through out America? User:starzaz 11:56, 16 December 2007
Yes indeed. It is so common in the United States, that it sounds weird when a person here does not use an alveolar flap in words like "water". 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 21:50, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
The blue area of the map in this article does not correspond exactly with the region surrounded by all three lines in the Northern Cities Vowel Shift article. Northwestern Indiana is not surrounded by all three lines in the NCVS article, but it is highlighted blue in this article. I think Confiteordeo should fix this problem, as he is the author of this map. The map in the NCVS article is based on the published data in the Atlas of North American English, so I doubt it is incorrect. 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 21:20, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
I realize that she is from Toledo. However, Toledo isn't a part of the "core" of the NCVS, so she doesn't have the first stage of the shift (the raising and diphthongization of /æ/ to [ɪə]). As a person who is not from the Inland North, I see that stage as the most noticeable part of the shift (people from there generally have a difficult time noticing there own accents). Thus, if people come to this article, look at the notable speakers, and see Katie Holmes' name there, they will have a difficult time detecting her accent, and will go away thinking that the Inland North is basically an "accentless" region of the United States. This is completely untrue. That is why when I add speakers to the notable speakers section, I try to pick more advanced speakers from the "core" region of the NCVS (like Mike North and Michael Moore). That way, the average person from another dialect region can easily detect their accents. I could see how most people would have a difficult time noticing the backing of /ʌ/ and /ɛ/ in someone's speech.
People are the ultimate authority here. I am a person. I will continue to edit whenever and whatever I want to edit. I don't see how Katie Holmes could possibly diphthongize [æ] to [ɪə] when if you look at Toledo on this map, it is not surrounded by the red isogloss. They say Americans suck at reading maps, but I didn't know you guys sucked that much. So either that map is completely wrong, or you guys have terrible ears. I don't really see either one of you as experts on this subject, so nothing you say is going to change what I think. Believe it or not, I actually have reasons for the things I do. I don't just pull stuff out of my ass. If either one of you guys were confident enough on your own, then you wouldn't have to double team me. Thank you. 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 02:25, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes; however, it does imply that any given speaker from Toledo will not have the first part of the shift, i.e., the diphthongization of [æ] to [ɪə]. If this is not the case, then Toledo should be surrounded by the red isogloss on that map. Please do not get off to a bad start with me by taking a tone of superiority. I already dislike you. There is no need to write "obviously". Well I guess there is if you are a haughty person. 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 18:35, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
I agree that no one needs to be in this article. Maybe we should consider taking that entire section out of the article. It seems kind of stupid to me. But as long as it's there, I'm going to edit it. I don't want to get into an edit war either. I don't consider this even close to being an edit war. I just want people to put a lot of thought into their edits, and I want to ask questions to make sure I have an understanding of this dialect. By the way, AJD, I don't own the ANAE. I would love to have it, but it costs way too much money. I can't register on their Web site either, so there is no way I can get that information. 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 20:10, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
I've been reading your pages about different American accents and I'm now very interested and curious. Anyway, I have a couple of questions. First off, I'm from Appleton, WI...what dialect do we speak here- Inland North American or North Central American? Also, could you explain the difference between the two dialects because growing up in WI all my life I honestly cannot tell the difference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.235.147.208 ( talk) 23:52, 11 February 2008 (UTC) ^^My apologies...forgot to sign and I'm not sure how to sign correctly either- I'm new using this. I'll identify myself as 143.235.147.208 ( talk) 00:04, 12 February 2008 (UTC)Appleton Chick 143.235.147.208 ( talk) 00:04, 12 February 2008 (UTC)^^
"Same dialect as you do"? Where are you from? FYI I'm a girl and I'm 21. My family and I do pronounce -ag words to rhyme with vague, such as "bag", "Maggie", or "flag". Until recently I didn't realize that we were pronouncing them wrong lol. I am still trying to understand what this "monophtongal o" and "Canadian raising" you speak of is. We *do* pronounce our vowels strongly if that's what your talking about, for instance, we pronounce our short o's like "ah", as in "Wis-CAHn-sin". I'm also obsessively curious about getting a grasp of what the Northern Cities Vowel Shift is, because I've searched all over the web for info on it and every article is too technical and difficult to understand. I've even been referring to the IPA chart and I'm *still* confused. The only sound samples I've been able to get of this "shift" were clips of some girl pronouncing "socks" like "sax" and "busses" like "bosses", and I've never heard anyone talk like this in my life. The mispronounciation of those words are so blatant that I don't understand how anyone would be unaware of this. Also, I still don't understand how a Great Lakes accent is different from a North Central American accent, I mean, if I were to listen to someone from Chicago, WI, MN, the UP, or Ontario, I wouldn't know the difference, I mean, I think we all have that nasal northern hoser-y sound to our voices. Is it that the Inland North has more of a Polish flavor and the North Central American has more of a Scandinavian flavor? 143.235.150.47 ( talk) 02:47, 26 February 2008 (UTC)Appleton Chick
208.104.45.20 ( talk) 22:30, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Well the differences must be pretty darn subtle seeing as a WI resident such as myself can't even tell them apart and you have a hard time explaining it. Are you saying that the shift is making Midwesterners sound more "proper" like General American? I thought it was making us harder to understand. I pronounce "sax", like "sacks" (as in Santa's sack), you know, with a short 'a', as in "cat". I guess me and my family sort of have Canadian raising, because like I said, we do pronounce are vowels strongly and exaggerated, but I'm not sure if our long o is as quite as exaggerated as you would hear in the movies Fargo or Drop Dead Gorgeous. But I have heard people around me that say it like that. Appleton Chick 143.235.151.212 ( talk) 00:30, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Could you at least try to explain it? Thanks. Appleton Chick 143.235.147.98 ( talk) 18:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
I'll keep looking for sound samples. I just wish people wouldn't let this ugly vowel shift progress too far.Appleton Chick 143.235.145.6 ( talk) —Preceding comment was added at 23:11, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
In ANAE, both the Inland North and the St. Louis Corridor are defined by the Northern Cities Shift, while Western New England is defined by a less advanced Northern Cities Shift. The St. Louis Corridor and the Inland North are defined in the exact same way, yet they are still separate regions for some reason. That doesn't make sense. I can see that Western New England is a distinct region because the Northern Cities Shift is less advanced there, although I couldn't find an explanation of what "less advanced" means. 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 21:15, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks so much AJD. That was very informative. I also want to apologize for my attacks on you. I obviously don't know you and I never will. You could be a good guy. I don't know. I just get angry on the internet sometimes. 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 03:38, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I get obsessed. I'm sure you know the feeling. You're more educated and experienced than I am (at least it seems that way). I've actually learned quite a bit from you. As I've said before, I would like to have ANAE, but it is too much money for me right now, so I just have to read excerpts from it. Quite a bit of it is actually available online (at least I think that's what I've been reading). 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 04:26, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
I've already mentioned this on the NCVS talk page, but I think the fronting of /ɑr/ is another notable aspect of this dialect, though it may not occur in everyone's speech. 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 21:41, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, this is an interview with a linguistics instructor, and she says that the fronting of /ɑr/ is a traditional northern feature (though she doesn't say it in those words). 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 00:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I found a reference for it in the demo version of ANAE. It is found in the commentary of an interview with a woman from Cleveland. Here's what it says:
The city of Cleveland is an integral part of the Inland North, in the original Western Reserve settlement area. But it is less advanced in the Northern Cities Shift than many other cities. Agatha R. shows the basic features of the NCS in a moderate form: tensing and raising of /æ/ in outstanding, Flats, traffic; fronting of /o/ in top, Hospital, backing of /e/ in incredible. As in Chicago, we hear a strongly fronted /ah/ in Chicago and /ahr/ in art, identified with the fronting /o/. The long mid vowels /ey/ and /ow/ are characteristically upper mid and tense (cf. lake, you know) but plainly diphthongal.
That sounds good enough for me. 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 19:54, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
I have heard an unusual pronunciation of words like fire in this region. Fire seems to be [fʌɪɻ] or something like that for some people (ignore the symbol I used to represent the final r, I am still relatively new to this IPA stuff; the difference is in how /аɪ/ is pronounced in this environment). 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 02:17, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks AJD. I think I found the article you're referring to. Can I put something about this into the article? I think this is an interesting phenomenon, because I thought Canadian raising only took place before voiceless consonants. I realize there are exceptions for many speakers, e.g., spider, but this is quite an exception. It seems much more noticeable in a pre-/r/ environment. Maybe the American type of Canadian raising is a bit different from the Canadian type. I think we could go into more detail in this article where it says "Canadian raising". 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 21:33, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
The thing is, I don't know how to word it correctly. 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 05:16, 24 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 20:13, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I believe that this is my native accent (I'm a lifelong resident of the Detroit area), but I definitely do not rhyme "on" with "don." I rhyme it with "dawn." Funnyhat ( talk) 04:16, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah no... I live in Scranton and every single human being here rhymes on and Don... Not dawn. Football3434 ( talk) 02:42, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
I found an interesting article here. It could either be used as a reference or an external link. It mentions Dennis Franz as being a speaker of this dialect, so I guess it could be used as a source for that. 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 00:29, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
According to this article by Corrine McCarthy, the Inland North is not a homogenous region. Some things in Chicago are inconsistent with the regional view of the Inland North. For example, /ɒ/ = /ɑ/ is not in low-front position there, but rather in low-central position. Also /ɔː/ remains in low-back/mid-back position, not low central position. In addition, the /uː//juː/ mean F2 = 1585 Hz; that's central, not back. The article concludes that Chicago, contrary to expectations, is not an extreme case of the NCS , at least not for /ɑ/ or /ɔː/. The earliest events in NCS, /æ/-raising and /ɒ/ = /ɑ/-fronting, have stabilized in Chicago, but later developments continue to strengthen, intensifying Chicago’s Northern character. The loss of peripheral /uː/ and front /ɑr/ in favor of non-local variant gives an opposing view of Chicago’s Northern character. I just thought this was another interesting article. Maybe someone could add something to the Inland North article about the inhomogeneity of this region. Thegryseone ( talk) 03:16, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, I knew someone would immediately mention that low central position for /ɔː/ would be extreme. I agree. Of course, these were all mean F1/F2 values. It was still interesting, though, that Chicago wasn't as advanced as might be expected, and that the first two stages of the NCS have stabilized there. I also read that Pittsburgh article you told me about. Thegryseone ( talk) 18:55, 30 June 2008 (UTC) By the way, that's interesting because I thought DRESS lowering was more common among females, whereas DRESS retraction is more common among males. I believe it though. Thegryseone ( talk) 19:29, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
That's fine Jack; no big deal. Corrine McCarthy's the linguist. I was just using her words. I don't fully understand all of this. One thing I am confused about, though, is whether /ɛ/ gets retracted or lowered (or both). I am just really confused about that. When people says it gets lowered and retracted, do they mean that it goes diagonally along that front line towards [æ] (I don't know what that's actually called)? So anytime [ɛ] gets lowered towards [æ], it must also be retracted, because [æ] is further back than [ɛ], right? Thegryseone ( talk) 22:13, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Having been lucky enough to live in the Northeast, Cleveland, and now the South, I can attest to the currency of all three of these expressions for sport-related footwear. However, I do contend that gym shoes has currency in Cleveland as much as tennis shoes, as through college I was able to hear both expressions used interchangably (and to a lesser degree with sneakers). It seems that the article implies in the vocabulary section that the use of gym shoes is endemic to the Chicago area, with little currency elsewhere. What is the consensus amongst the editors? -- Bwryan2006 ( talk) 17:23, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
I have lived in the Syracuse/Fingerlake region my entire life and have never heard anyone use "tennis shoe" or "gym shoe". Even the stores in the region promote them as sneakers. 170.123.4.230 ( talk) 15:59, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Should there be any mention of the pronunciation of "Elementary" and "Documentary"? There is mention of it in the article for Central New York, but it seems to me like there should be some mention under this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jzcrandall ( talk • contribs) 04:50, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
I know some people don't like the whole notable speakers thing, but I actually did find what seems to be a decent source for Dennis Franz being included in that list. It's a New York Times article entitled "It's Not the Sights, It's the Sounds". It features an interview with William Labov. It reads:
"If you're not sure what a Chicagoan sounds like," he [Labov] said, "watch old episodes 'NYPD Blue' and wait for Detective Sipowicz to ask, 'What hee-appened?' Having Dennis Franz, a Chicago native, portray a New York City cop is like trying to put a square peg in a round hole."
Thegryseone ( talk) 05:24, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
I even have a link of Labov actually saying his name here, if that counts for anything. He never actually says, "Dennis Franz is a speaker of the Inland North dialect" though. Thegryseone ( talk) 02:16, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
I added a note on the tendency to append a superfluous possesive 's' to place names. This was previously under List of shibboleths, though it is distributed too broadly and not widely enough adopted to be a shibboleth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by C alan zoppa ( talk • contribs) 01:00, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm 38, have lived in Michigan on and off for most of my life, and I am descended from at least two generations of Michiganders in every direction (who have lived in the central, eastern, northeastern, and northwestern Lower Peninsula). I have never heard the word "doorwall" in my life (for a sliding glass door), nor have any of my relatives whom I've consulted. None of us have lived in the Detroit area, though, except the northernmost suburbs for one couple. Is this local to Detroit, or made up? The other contentions that the article presents about speech in the region are accurate, to my knowledge. --Unsigned Michigander
Ishwasafish click here!!!
00:19, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Sorry to confuse you, but I'm posting from a hotel while on a business trip. It does clarify things to suggest that doorwall might be a usage local to Detroit, though. Thanks! -- Unsigned Michigander again —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.194.95.2 ( talk) 04:17, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Ishwasafish click here!!!
14:59, 4 October 2009 (UTC)As a speaker of the dialect, I can back the fact that doorwall is used, although it is not the only word for a sliding glass door. Simply sliding door is often used, but doorwall is a very real word. Ekcrbe ( talk) 17:34, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
I originally come from near South Bend, have lived in west-central Indiana and now in metro Detroit. If Gary is cited in this article, South Bend should be too. The differences in speech between Gary and South Bend are so slight as to be inconsequential. People from Northern Indiana, such as myself, sound MUCH more like Detroiters and Chicagoans than people in the rest of Indiana. When I lived in west-central Indiana, I was frequently asked where I was from, as I obviously couldn't be a "Hoosier" (frequent guesses were Chicago and even Canada).-- Locutus1966 ( talk) 18:58, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Is it possible someone (much more knowledgeable than me) could include examples in the "Phonetics: Northern Cities shift" section? I am not a linguist, so I do not understand the meaning of something like: "3. In the third stage, /ɔ/ lowers towards [ɑ]" I am quite interested in this subject, but as a layperson, it's hard for me to understand the article. Help from some cool linguists who want to make the subject more accessible to us common folk would be appreciated! :) Danflave ( talk) 00:33, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
I would be grateful if some knowledgeable person or persons would add a section on the evolution of this dialect. My understanding is that it descends principally from the Western New England dialect (which, I gather, differs from the Eastern New England dialect principally in its marked rhoticism), which was carried to the Great Lakes region with the great westward migration of New Englanders in the early 18th C., but I don't remember where I read that. (An article on that migration in general would also be useful.)
Jdcrutch ( talk) 15:22, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
The page Buffalo English is little more than a stub, sourced to one apparently self-published "Guide to Buffalo English", plus Matthew Campbell's pop-soda map (which doesn't show Buffalo to be distinct from Inland Northern). I know of no reliable sources discussing Buffalo English as a dialect distinct from Inland Northern American English. Instead of deletion, perhaps we can merge any useful information that could be sourced. Cnilep ( talk) 07:46, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
I've seen a few comments requesting that South Bend be added to the map, and I think that Fort Wayne should definitely be included in the map. Fort Wayne is bigger and has a higher population than South Bend, and almost all of these examples apply to Fort Wayne (excluding the city-specific examples and the on/don thing. On definitely rhymes with dawn.) But I have grown up in Fort Wayne, and I learned faucet, pit, pop, suckers, shopping cart, teeter totter, tennis shoes, and drinking fountain way before I even heard any of the alternatives. But from what I could understand from the pronunciation article, Fort Wayne does not fall under any of those categories. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Myfriendwolf ( talk • contribs) 04:31, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
i'm from around toledo, have relatives in southeast michigan and the ft. wayne area, and in all my years of being in these places, have never heard the accent described on this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.53.159.220 ( talk) 15:17, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
While the article claims that "bubbler" is used for "drinking fountain" only in Milwaukee County and the surrounding counties, this is untrue. Having grown up in the Winnebago and Green Lake County areas, and having my children attend Brown County schools over the past 15 years, I can assure you that "bubbler" is by far the choice in East Central Wisconsin, and "drinking fountain" is certain to cause an "outsider" label (about as bad as saying "GREEN Bay" instead of "Green BAY"). I suspect that this usage extends over most of Wisconsin, at least the eastern half. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.109.78.93 ( talk) 16:37, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Aside from Canadian raising, an awful lot of what I read here reminds of Canadian English in general. Are there sources that make the comparison? I feel like something should be said about it. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:26, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
A particular line caught my eye, regarding the NCVS:
Therefore, the NCVS is technically a drag chain. Should this be added into the article? Thank you. LakeKayak ( talk) 03:16, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
Thank you, sir. LakeKayak ( talk) 19:07, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
The page Northeast Pennsylvania English provides nothing more than a slightly more in-depth (but poorly sourced) look at Inland Northern American English (INAE) as spoken in one given area: which, according to most of the page's own descriptions, is exactly like INAE as spoken everywhere else! Unless there are sources delineating a Northeast Pennsylvania sub-dialect as special, it should be merged. Right now, the page mostly cites the Atlas of North American English (ANAE), which makes no such distinctions. The only Northeast PA city the ANAE studies is Scranton, which it easily classifies under the Inland North dialect. The only other cited source is a 1961 work by Hans Kurath, which the ANAE confirms, though the ANAE shows evidence that some of Kurath's data is outdated. Wolfdog ( talk) 22:56, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
I restored some information on the NEPA page with vocab, so I'm curious if that addresses your concerns at all. I also want to loop in Alistoriv because s/he was engaged in this topic as well up top. I personally think they should be separate, but I will find research to that effect. Tfkalk ( talk) 14:16, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
I see Angr has also has participated a lot on that article and its talk page and may wish to comment as well. Wolfdog ( talk) 15:10, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
I have heard claims that in this accent /k/ is dropped in words with /k/ and /tʃ/ in that specific order in adjacent syllables. Is this true, and should this consonant merger be noted in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.83.43.134 ( talk) 21:35, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
Sol505000: It feels like you're creating more work for yourself in this section, asserting a questionable premise and then trying to build all kinds of unnecessary explanations and caveats around that premise that is dubious in the first place. What is your evidence (as in, a source), that Inland Northern accents undergo a "kit-comma merger"? Sure, KIT lowers and retracts, but that in no way allows you to confidently state that it "effectively results" in a merger with COMMA... unless you have a source. Even the NCVS chart we display on the page itself shows that KIT lands somewhere in the territory in-between [ɘ], [ə], [ɛ], and [e]. This is not COMMA-only territory, plus even if it directly overlapped with COMMA, a source would really be helpful, because (as Labov and others have studied), sometimes overlapping vowel spaces do not result in mergers (but rather distinctions based on length, near-mergers, etc.). Wolfdog ( talk) 14:40, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
Ryan Gosling, while Canadian through and through, seems to speak with a hybrid New York- Chicago/Great Lakes accent in many of his movies. According to his profile, he hails from London, Ontario, which is roughly equidistant between Detroit and Buffalo, New York, both strongholds of Inland Northern American English. Hence, even if he grew up speaking Canadian English, there’s a chance he might have grown up with some Northern Inland features and incorporated this dialect in various roles. Wiscipidier ( talk) 03:04, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2023 and 4 May 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Peer reviewers:
Livelaughlove11234,
Coleslaw07.
— Assignment last updated by ForeverButNever ( talk) 21:43, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
Ashton Kutcher is from Cedar Rapids, Iowa in the INAE region and he quite clearly and famously says ‘punked’ as ‘ponked’, perhaps he should be added as a famous example of a speaker of this dialect? The dodgy cop Michael Brelo from Cleveland ( Killing of Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams) is a particularly broad speaker too. Overlordnat1 ( talk) 21:23, 10 July 2023 (UTC)