This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Note 42, in the Italy section, links to a PDF report from frdb.org. The link is broken; frdb.org returns a 404 error. Searching in frdb.org fails to turn up a PDF that contains the statements quoted here. There is a PDF of a presentation in Italian under a similar title. I can't determine if any of the quotes given here on Wikipedia in English correspond to something in the Italian. Unfortunately the need for work on this can't be indicated in the article due to its protected status, or at least I don't know how to do it. Poihths ( talk) 15:39, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
Please use an edit request to request a change to the article after consensus has been reached for that change. If edit warring resumes after protection expires then blocks may be levied even if WP:3RR hasn't been breached. -- NeilN talk to me 00:31, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
So, is it acceptable to reinsert some of the well-sourced valid statistics that were cut out between the following edits? https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Immigration_and_crime&type=revision&diff=773453338&oldid=771004736 David A ( talk) 17:55, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
I reinserted the more important matter-of-fact statistics into the page, along with some new ones, and removed the irrelevant Trump statement, as a counter-reaction after Snooganssnoogans severely slanted the page, by inserting various largely fact-free opinion pieces by one-sided pro-mass-immigration activists such as Jerzy Sarnecki. My apologies, but the situation is extremely serious, and I would much prefer if people start to look at the numbers, rather than listen to activist demagogues.
However, he can reinsert the ones that are fact-derived, and not strictly extremely misleading opinion pieces, if he wishes. David A ( talk) 04:39, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
Here are various statistics that I have found. Do with them as you wish:
Malmo, in Sweden, is the second most unsafe, and crime-infested city in Europe:
https://www.numbeo.com/crime/region_rankings.jsp?title=2017®ion=150
It was decided to open Sweden for massive immigration from the 3rd world in 1975:
The amount of women in Sweden subjected to sexually related crimes went up with 70% between 2014 to 2015:
There were over 480000 sexually related crimes against women in Sweden 2015:
http://www.bra.se/download/18.37179ae158196cb1721ac8/1478089201798/2016_Utsatthet_for_brott_2015.pdf
In 1975 only 421 rapes were reported to the police in Sweden:
To compare with 5920 the year 2015:
https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/valdtakt-och-sexualbrott.html
According to the Swedish police department, there are 55 extremely lawless areas in the country, and 186 in sum total. There were only 3 of them in 1990:
According to the leader of the ambulance drivers' union, Gordon Grattidge, the police, and other rescue workers, cannot enter such areas without being subjected to severe violent assaults, such as stone-throwing lynch mobs:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-truth-about-sweden/article/2007071
660000 immigrants are expected to apply for asylum to Sweden 2016-2020 in sum total:
11% of youths (non-Muslims were included in the survey) in the suburbs of Gothenburg admit to supporting Jihadism:
80% of Muslim women in Gothenburg admit to live under the threat of honour culture:
http://www.gp.se/nyheter/göteborg/utbrett-hedersförtryck-mot-flickor-i-göteborg-1.3908432
A comparative study of criminal tendencies between people born in Sweden and abroad from 2005:
Further information about the vastly increased violent criminal activity in society since 1975:
https://www.morpheusblogg.se/2015/11/12/kriminaliteten-okar-visst/
According to the Swedish police department, the use of hand-grenades in Sweden among criminals is the highest in the world for countries not currently at war:
https://www.svd.se/svenska-attacker-med-granater-sticker-ut-i-varlden
A study about the extremely increasing antisemitism in Sweden:
http://kantorcenter.tau.ac.il/sites/default/files/PP%203%20Antisemitisms%20160608.pdf David A ( talk) 10:05, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
We have a policy that says:
. Do not base an entire article on primary sources, and be cautious about basing large passages on them.
I think we're getting to that point, with folks just adding raw stats from primary sources and not using secondary sources. We gotta start limiting that and use studies instead. VR talk 06:35, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
I think that we have the opposite problem, in that virtually all statistics for Sweden have been ignored in favour of unfounded opinion pieces. David A ( talk) 12:10, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Immigration and crime. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:18, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
There is fairly solid scholarly evidence that immigrants are somewhat more likely to commit crime than Swedes (the average is a rate of 2, not 20). At the same time this higher average can be explained by socio-economic factors. The sources that attest to this are high quality English language academic sources (I'll put them in soon). So if a foreign language source contradicts this, I will politely ask for the both the text of the source and an explanation as to why this source can be considered reliable. VR talk 06:59, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
Here are several relevant fact sources. Some of them should at the very least be important enough to include in the article:
It was decided to open Sweden for mass-immigration from the 3rd world in 1975:
In 1975 only 421 rapes were reported to the police in Sweden:
To compare with 5920 the year 2015:
https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/valdtakt-och-sexualbrott.html
The amount of women in Sweden subjected to sexually related crimes went up with 70% between 2014 to 2015:
There were over 480000 sexually related crimes against women in Sweden 2015:
http://www.bt.se/sverige-varlden/480-000-sexbrott-mot-kvinnor-i-sverige-pa-ett-ar/
http://www.bra.se/download/18.37179ae158196cb1721ac8/1478089201798/2016_Utsatthet_for_brott_2015.pdf
At least 90% of all murders and attempted murders through gun violence in Sweden are performed by either immigrants or those with at least one immigrant parent:
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/vanligt-med-utlandsk-bakgrund-bland-unga-man-som-skjuter/
94.5% of all career criminals in Stockholm, Sweden, are either immigrants or have at least one immigrant parent:
According to the Swedish police department, there are 53 areas in the country where the police has lost control of crime and religious extremism/Islamism. 23 of them are extremely criminal. There are at least 186 social alienation areas in sum total. In 1990 there were only 3 of them:
http://www.westmonster.com/8-new-areas-added-to-swedish-police-no-go-zone-list/
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/hemliga-listan-23-omraden-ar-nu-sarskilt-utsatta/
According to the leader of the ambulance drivers' union, Gordon Grattidge, the police, and other rescue workers, cannot enter such areas without being subjected to severe violent assaults, such as stone-throwing lynch mobs:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-truth-about-sweden/article/2007071
According to the Swedish police department, the use of hand-grenades in Sweden among criminals is the highest in the world for countries not currently at war:
https://www.svd.se/svenska-attacker-med-granater-sticker-ut-i-varlden
There is a floating distinction between the jihadists and extremely violent criminals in Sweden:
https://www.dagenssamhalle.se/kronika/flytande-graens-mellan-gaengen-och-jihadisterna-33125
The number of physical assaults against boys between the ages of 15 and 17 in Sweden have increased by 68% during the last two years:
The number of sex crimes in Swedish festivals went up by 1000% in 2016 compared to the previous year, right after taking in 203000 immigrants in 2015:
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/brottscentralen/tjejer-ofredas-pa-grona-lund-helt-oacceptabelt-/
The police of Sweden reports that: "Society is not equipped to deal with this great a number of criminal actors (...) Police and other social actors lack the ability to handle the problem."
http://www.expressen.se/ledare/rikspolischefen-har-tappat-kontrollen/
The number of genital-mutilated women in Sweden are several times higher than 38000:
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/mangdubbelt-fler-konsstympade-kvinnor-an-man-trott
Sweden will take in 374000 relatives to previous immigrants during the next 4 years:
http://www.svd.se/i-asylkrisens-spar-374-000-anhoriga-vantas
The number of immigrants that will apply for asylum to Sweden 2016-2020 in sum total:
10000 immigrants arrive in Italy every week, and mostly want to go to northern Europe:
355000 Swedish elderly live below the poverty line: http://www.expressen.se/dinapengar/355-000-lever-under-gransen-for-fattigdom/
11% of the youths in the suburbs of Gothenburg admit to supporting Jihadism (non-Muslims were included in the survey):
80% of Muslim women in Gothenburg admit to live under the threat of honour culture:
http://www.gp.se/nyheter/göteborg/utbrett-hedersförtryck-mot-flickor-i-göteborg-1.3908432
There are thousands of Jihadists in Sweden:
https://www.svd.se/sapo-tusentals-radikala-islamister-i-sverige/om/hotet-mot-sverige
https://www.thelocal.se/20170616/thousands-of-violent-extremists-in-sweden-security-police/
The EU admits that extremely few of the immigrants to Europe have been actual refugees, and are rather there for economic reasons:
Germany admits that most of the immigrants almost completely lack education and work skills:
https://amp.ft.com/content/022de0a4-54f4-11e7-9fed-c19e2700005f
82% of immigrants to Sweden who claim to be underage are really adults:
https://www.rmv.se/aktuellt/det-visar-tre-manader-av-medicinska-aldersbedomningar/
Over 90% of the young 3rd world immigrants are men, not women:
A report about the intense antisemitism in the Muslim communities of Sweden and Europe:
http://kantorcenter.tau.ac.il/sites/default/files/PP%203%20Antisemitisms%20160608.pdf
A study about antisemitic violence in Europe. The Muslims and the far left are the by far greatest perpetrators:
http://www.sv.uio.no/c-rex/english/news-and-events/news/2017/antisemitic-violence-in-europe.html
The Muslim Brotherhood has a very strong foothold and influence in Sweden:
https://www.msb.se/Upload/Kunskapsbank/Studier/Muslimska_Brodraskapet_i_Sverige_DNR_2107-1287.pdf
It is also considering to move its international headquarters to Sweden:
https://ledarsidorna.se/2017/03/is-the-muslim-brotherhood-moving-to-sweden/
David A ( talk) 15:10, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
Asylum seekers to Germany are 7.3 times as likely to commit crimes as the average citizen:
http://www.epochtimes.de/politik/welt/ines-laufer-die-fluechtlings-kriminalitaet-zwischen-fakten-und-medienluegen-a2132375.html David A ( talk) 14:27, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
Do we really need 21 references for one sentence? Looks like it should be trimmed down to 3-5 tops. PackMecEng ( talk) 17:43, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
Data is his book isn't sourced and not official. http://www.francetvinfo.fr/replay-radio/le-vrai-du-faux/60-des-detenus-francais-sont-musulmans_1770701.html ScrittoreMagrolino ( talk) 19:01, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Immigration and crime. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.elsevier.nl/web/Nieuws/Nederland/236094/Schokkende-cijfers-criminaliteit-Marokkanen-Rotterdam.htmWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:07, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hello.
I would greatly appreciate if somebody could please check through the following references, to see if any of them can be inserted into the Sweden section. Thank you.
According to Dagens Nyheter, at least 90% of all murders and attempted murders through gun violence in Sweden are performed by either immigrants or those with at least one immigrant parent. [1]
According to Expressen, 94.5% of all members of career criminal gangs in Stockholm, Sweden, are either immigrants or have at least one immigrant parent. [2]
According to the Swedish police department, there are 53 socially vulnerable areas in the country, of which the ones wherein they have lost control of crime and religious extremism recently increased from 15 to 23. [3] [4] [5]
According to the leader of the Swedish ambulance drivers' union, rescue workers cannot enter such areas without police protection. [6] [7] [8]
The staff of the Swedish Migration Agency have reported 2875 incidents of threats or violence from January to September 2017. [9]
According to the Swedish Security Service (SÄPO), there are thousands of Islamic terrorists in Sweden, [10] [11] and it receives an average of 200 reports of planned terrorism every day. [12]
3 times as many cases of terrorism financing were reported in Sweden 2017 compared to 2016. [13]
References
David A ( talk) 05:44, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
No action Not a legitimate COI edit request. Spintendo ᔦᔭ 20:19, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
I think we have some work to the to balance section about Sweden. What is established is that immigrants are overrepresented and that violent crime is increasing, the reason behind this is not settle as the article would suggest. The article only give perspectives from a sociology perspective, but Jerzy Sarnecki is not the only one who have an opinion about this subject. Tino Sanandaji has been writing extensively about this subject and it would be good if other perspectives where added.
Why is Sweden the only section that have the subsections recent and past immigration? Why is 2013 consider past immigration? There is no such distinction to be made.
Why does it say that crime rates overall has risen, while crime rates overall are stable overall, but vary depending on the type of crime? -- Immunmotbluescreen ( talk) 10:01, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
Snooganssnoogans Wikipedia is not censored.
The ABS figures on incarceration rate are per 100,000 from table 22 in 4517.0 Prisoners in Australia, 2017 - http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/4517.0~2017~Main%20Features~Country%20of%20birth~9
quoting explanation
IMPRISONMENT RATES
53 Imprisonment rates enable comparison of prisoner populations across states and territories at a point in time, as well as over time. Prisoner rates are expressed per 100,000 adult population, in accordance with international and state and territory practices. 54 Rates for the adult prisoner population are calculated using the estimated resident population (ERP) for each of the states and territories, and total Australia (see Australian Demographic Statistics (cat. no. 3101.0)) as at 31 March of the relevant calendar year. All estimates and projections for the Australian Capital Territory exclude Jervis Bay Territory. Estimates and projections for Australia exclude the external territories of Christmas Island and the Cocos (Keeling) Islands, with the exception of table 22. For table 22, data on country of birth excluding external territories are not available. As a result imprisonment rates by country of birth may be slightly lower than would be the case if these data were available. 55 From 2016, all crude imprisonment rate data are based on the perturbed population counts in these tables (see Explanatory Notes paragraphs 108–110). Prior to 2016, data for crude imprisonment rates were based on unperturbed data. As per previous years, age standardised imprisonment rates are calculated from unpertubed data. 56 The formula for calculating the imprisonment rate is as follows:
57 The formula for calculating the ratio of two imprisonment rates is as follows:
58 In June 2013, the ABS 'recast' the historical ERP data for the September 1991 to June 2011 period, as a response to a methodological improvement in the Census Post Enumeration Survey. As a result, the rates per 100,000 adult persons in the Prisoner Census have been recast, and all now use final ERP data based on the 2011 Census of Population and Housing.
59 For population estimates and information on the methodology used to produce the ERP, see Australian Demographic Statistics (cat. no. 3101.0).
This is available in the standard ABS data explanation. -- Callinus ( talk) 12:25, 14 January 2018 (UTC) @ Snooganssnoogans:
Snooganssnoogans Per edit comment, how is Donald Trump an authoritative expert on crime in Europe? Which reports on immigrant crime in Northern Europe has he authored? AadaamS ( talk) 19:56, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
Snooganssnoogans Per this revert, if you find a published report by M. Gerell per WP:SCHOLARSHIP with the same claims after he completed the PhD (or as part of the PhD thesis) you are welcome to use that. AadaamS ( talk) 15:40, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
Should the Sweden section list paragraphs in chronological order? AadaamS ( talk) 05:54, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
The edit also involved a dispute with citing M. Gerell, has already been resolved by removing the WP:SPECULATION in this edit. AadaamS ( talk) 05:54, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
"Muslim immigrants living in states with the sharpest increase in hate crimes also exhibit: greater chances of marrying within their own ethnic group; higher fertility; lower female labour force participation; and lower English proficiency." The possible consequences are not backed up by data. May anyone dig into that suggestions? Harsher punishments can work, if those are accepted by all participants. In particular I am unsure how assimilation is measured and how big and centralized the communities were before and after the hate crimes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.63.68.205 ( talk) 10:22, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
Per this edit, no WP:RS show that Donald Trump is an expert on Sweden and that his comments do not belong among other comments in the section about Sweden, since all others cited are experts in one form or another (Swedish Institute is debatable as they are experts at public relations, not criminology). ENWP is under no obligation to report unsubstantiated WP:RUMORS. AadaamS ( talk) 19:12, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
-- Moxy 🍁 19:53, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
A new literature review on Nordic research and statistics between 2005 and 2019 has been published by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Brå). Available here (in Swedish). According to its findings, people born in a foreign country are heavily over-represented in serious crime and 2nd generation immigrants are more likely to commit crimes than 1st generation. Though it has a lot more because it's 80 pages long.
I don't have time for more work right now, so just posting this here, but this source could be used to condense the Sweden-section and add a more global view in the article lead. Currently the lead section has an undue weight on the US metastudy: A meta-analysis of 51 studies from 1994–2014 on the relationship between immigration and crime in the United States found that overall immigration reduces crime, but the relationship is very weak
--
Pudeo (
talk)
12:30, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
There is no reason to remove a report on rape statistics in Italy just because it is incomplete, or we may as well not even have a page called Rape statistics because they are pitifully underreported in every country on Earth. I point to attention that this page already reports on rape statistics in other countries, none of which will be full and truly representative. Source #82 on Finland [2] discusses similarly why some offences may be reported and others not, depending on whether the offender was known to the victim or not. I made sure to include from the source that the percentages of foreigners reporting and being arrested for rape is about equal - the sources do not support a "they're raping our women" narrative.
So I don't see what this page is for. Is it just a dumping ground for raw figures, and not what the sources have said to explain the figures? Would it be OK for the Race and crime page to just say that more black people are per capita arrested and jailed in the US, without explaining what different sources say about why? Wallachia Wallonia ( talk) 22:14, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Category:Immigration and crime has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Apokrif ( talk) 00:57, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 March 2021 and 7 June 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Vanessajibarra.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 00:18, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Why does this page puts so much effort into talking about the USA I know Wikipedia especially the English one is biased but this is too much even for you guys 87.103.30.241 ( talk) 16:04, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
I don't know about other countries but in France it's forbidden to do a study regarding using ethnicity as data. And if someone does it anyways, most people will say it's racist without even reading about it or knowing the conclusion. But, there's still reports of crimes in Newspapers and TV. I don't know personally if it's exactly true but if we only listen to those reports, a lot of the crimes are made by immigrants, maybe most crimes. Also, in France, we have the feeling that the police lost its power. If you're robbed or even raped, most of the time the culprit, especially if he's young or an immigrant, will walk free after a couple of days without a trial, and even if there's a trial, some of them will not be condemned for the most ridiculous reasons (for example, the taxi rapist in France a few years ago was released and the only apparent and given reason was that the rapes occured 6 years ago, he had a child and it's so sad to destroy a family like that...: https://rmx.news/france/france-shocked-as-convicted-iranian-serial-rapist-prepares-to-walk-free-even-after-female-victim-makes-personal-plea-on-video-to-keep-him-behind-bars/ ;you can find maybe more detailed articles elsewhere and there's a lot of other crimes that had similar conclusions).
If you're interested in knowing for example every crime that happens related to women, you can follow Collectif Nemesis on Instagram, sadly, there's daily reports about it. And just because they mention the origins of the assailant (european, or immigrant), they're treated as racists...
For Germany, you can see the state of the justice and police system with the just the New Year's Eve from Cologne in 2015-2016. 1500 women assaulted and only 200 found suspects with only 4 condemned with a maximum of 1 year and 10 months, on which the culprit appealed (I think he never went to jail...)
I have the impression that the person who wrote the article only searched for studies without knowing that there isn't any in some Europeans countries and stopped around here... 90.3.201.184 ( talk) 22:20, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
Tried to click on "After Trump comments, the reality of crime and migrants in Sweden". France 24. 20 February 2017. Retrieved 9 April 2017." but the source page does not exist anymore. Wimpy acrosstheuniverse ( talk) 10:43, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
The latest study is a DECADE old! As is, this article is irrelevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.70.29.185 ( talk) 15:05, 31 March 2024 (UTC)