Hurricane Bertha (2008) was a Natural sciences good articles nominee, but did not meet the
good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be
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The best track is re-evaluated even in real time. There is a key way of checking. Check the CHGHUR /Objective aid messages, and note what the positions listed as were 12 and 24 hours beforehand. They don't always match the TCM/tropical cyclone forecast advisory synoptic position information, because of smoothing made in the best track in real-time. If they get previous position information from the CHGHUR messages, they're not confused.
Thegreatdr (
talk)
15:23, 9 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Also, please note that the NRL releases track information at 00, 06, 12, and 18 UTC while the NHC releases it at 03, 09, 15, and 21 UTC. There sometimes tends to be a difference in the intensity in the three hour span, especially with rapidly intensifying storms.
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
17:41, 9 July 2008 (UTC)reply
I agree, but since it's not in the best track, we can't use it. Maybe in the TCR they'll include that for when Bertha peaked, as it may have in-between the advisories as you've said.
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
13:47, 10 July 2008 (UTC)reply
The upper low that caused the shear
According to water vapor imagery and model data from yesterday morning, the upper low which caused the shear was the one to its northeast, not the one retrograding ahead of Bertha. I noticed that NHC seemed to imply the latter in its early morning advisory.
Thegreatdr (
talk)
15:25, 9 July 2008 (UTC)reply
How was that image created? The GOES satellite presentation has been getting stronger and stronger over the last few hours. Definitely some rapid deepening going on. The next NHC update should be interesting...
PlasticupT/
C18:15, 9 July 2008 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure how it was made, I was looking through the old CMISS page at camp (the macs there can't support the new one) and opened the file that contained that image. Btw, NRL Update just brought Bertha up to Category two with winds of 100mph and a pressure of 972mb, NHC probably will follow with the same intensity, if not stronger.
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
20:34, 9 July 2008 (UTC)reply
It looks pretty neat right now. I took a couple screenshots and I'll upload them once I figure out the appropriate licensing information.
PlasticupT/
C16:19, 14 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Newbie edits
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Itfc+canes=me (
talk)
16:48, 10 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Earliest Annular Hurricane?
This claim needs a citation: "Bertha also became the earliest ever Annular Hurricane on record after a eye-wall replacement cycle on July 10"
PlasticupT/
C18:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)reply
I'm not even sure that it was an annular hurricane, let alone the earliest. If you find a reliable source we can reconsider, but until then I think it is best that this claim stay out.
PlasticupT/
C02:49, 14 July 2008 (UTC)reply
THE CURRENT CLOUD PATTERN CONFIGURATION...ANNULAR TYPE...AND LOW SHEAR SUGGEST THAT THE INTENSITY WILL NOT CHANGE IN THE NEXT DAY OR SO. from Discussion #34.
HurricaneRulzMath (
talk)
03:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Duration, distance traveled
Bertha seems quite exceptional in its longevity. What records is it setting for duration? And for duration in July? Also, given its fast movement and significant duration, has it set any records for distance traveled? I want to familiarize myself with the Atlantic Hurricane Database eventually, but I'm sure that others will be more efficient at this time.
PlasticupT/
C02:52, 14 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Except hurricane 2 was a June storm.Hurricane 3 is the relevant one. Is it best to put this discussion here or on the 2008 season talk page? (There is already bits on both.)
crandles (
talk)
16:30, 14 July 2008 (UTC)reply
It is a storm-specific record, so I think the storm-specific page is more appropriate. I'll make a note on the season page.
PlasticupT/
C16:36, 14 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Personally with regards to records i would wait for the NHC to either cover it in their advisories or the TCR which should include a record section
Jason Rees (
talk)
17:35, 14 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Hi. Hurricane Bertha is currently the longest-lasting July tropical storm since Allison in 1989, which formed in June. This is speculation, but if the forecast turns out right, then Bertha could easily become the longest-lasting recorded July Atlantic tropical cyclone in recorded history. Yay! Thanks. ~
AH1(
TCU)17:38, 14 July 2008 (UTC)reply
As long as you reference the Atlantic hurricane database, there's no real need to reference an NHC tropical cyclone discussion for the record. They may not think it is an important enough piece information to note in real-time, though it should be in the TCR as an interesting factoid.
Thegreatdr (
talk)
17:42, 14 July 2008 (UTC)reply
What?! 12 days is the record? While browsing Atlantic hurricane seasons from 1920 to present, I saw one June-July storm (Allison, 1989) and another June storm lasting 13 days. Maybe we should include the record for all tropical storms, but it looks like Bertha will break that too. 18 days should be no problem for this storm. If it does, it will be the only July storm in that table of long lasting storms in the article
List of notable Atlantic hurricanes. Also, what do you mean by the Atlantic hurricane database? However, I don't think the distace travelled was that great. Thanks. ~
AH1(
TCU)17:58, 14 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Remember that July Atlantic tropical cyclone refers to tropical cyclones that form in the Atlantic Basin during July, so those that formed in June wouldn't count.
This link is HURDAT, the Atlantic hurricane database. It is a primary source. Simple scripts can be written to determine all kinds of information including length of track and the duration of a storm's existence.
Thegreatdr (
talk)
18:52, 14 July 2008 (UTC)reply
After Bertha has beaten Irenes duration there is Lisa and Jeanne of 2004 then Ivan. Ivan isn't going to be beaten and 2004 isn't long ago. Nor is Ginger 1971 going to be beaten. What is the second longest duration since 1971? (So far found Lisa 16 days and nothing over 18 days) If Bertha takes this, would saying this appear more sensible than longest since 2004?
crandles (
talk)
10:37, 17 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Irene had 56 advisories and Bertha is already up to 57. It's definitely time to think about what we're going to compare it to instead of Irene. If Jeanne is the most recent storm to outlast Bertha, that would be a safe place to start.
DOSGuy (
talk)
14:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Yea, the NHC (and we) had/have a table that lists the top 10 or so, but organizes it by 6-hour periods (24.25 days instead of 24, for example). ♬♩
Hurricanehink (
talk)
03:30, 18 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Ivan's duration was non-continuous though - it was a remnant low for a couple days as it turned back south and southwest.
CrazyC83 (
talk)
20:19, 18 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Even if you discount the remnant low stage, the nhc issued 75 six-hour advisories for Ivan during the season
[2]. Same goes for the table, most of the storms on that chart include the extratropical phase, which I don't think is generally counted. Also, as a side note, the tropical wave that became bertha formed 20 days ago today (June 30).
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
21:26, 19 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Distance to burmuda/lack of storm info
There seems a lack of information between July 12 and current information July 16 particularly when this includes closest approach to Bermuda. Is there a source to say how close it got to Bermuda? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
C-randles (
talk •
contribs)
"AT 200 PM AST...1800Z...THE CENTER OF TROPICAL STORM BERTHA WAS LOCATED NEAR LATITUDE 32.5 NORTH...LONGITUDE 64.1 WEST OR ABOUT 40 MILES...60 KM...EAST-NORTHEAST OF BERMUDA.[3] --
RattleMan15:52, 16 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Its closest point of approach may have been between advisories. Local reports said less than 30 miles, but the TCR will confirm in a few months.
PlasticupT/
C13:34, 17 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Bertha Eclipses Irene
Bertha has now surpassed Irene in longevity by one advisory. The NHC issued it's 57th and final advisory on Irene on August 8 at 15 UTC, 2005. The 58th advisory on Bertha was just issued and it looks like more will follow. I wasn't sure whether to use Frances as the next longest lived storm as it spent the last leg of its tropical advisories as a tropical depression. Ivan is a definite as it lived for over 20 days.
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
17:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC)reply
However, Lixion Avila's latest forecast discussion61 again shows how crafty this man is with the English language: TENACIOUS BERTHA makes sense in most of the meanings the word tenacious has, f. ex. as in persistent, as in stubborn, as in long-living, maybe even as in driving him crazy. --10:34, 18 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
213.155.231.26 (
talk)
Bertha to be a Hurricane AGAIN )=
Someone kill this cane...Bertha is beginning to annoy me... the Noaa SDT site say that Berthas t number is now 4.0 and 4.0 = cat 1 cane. Shes got a good lookin eye and she will probably be a cane.... When will she die??????
Itfc+canes=me (
talk)
20:53, 18 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Dvorak numbers are just meant to be a guide augmented by an expert's subjective opinion so let's not jump to conclusions. That sort of thing is better suited for the
Hurricane Wikia.
PlasticupT/
C19:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Problem is shes looked like a hurricane for ages..... Also her track is getting closer and closer to where I live. The NHC seem confident shes going to weaken but she looks to organised to not.
Itfc+canes=me (
talk)
20:53, 18 July 2008 (UTC)reply
max wind speed at ground level recorded in Bermuda ?
What was the maximum wind speed/gust reported from Bertha at any obs station in Bermuda? Should be placed into article if anyone has it...
Ferd Blivid (
talk)
19:26, 20 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Iceland
The last potential course before Bertha went extratropical had it headed right for Iceland. Did the extratropical remnants of this storm have any effect on the island?--
Prosfilaes (
talk)
04:24, 21 July 2008 (UTC)reply
I don't think it has gotten that far yet. The "remnants" should be hitting Iceland in a day or two as a very powerful extratropical storm.
PlasticupT/
C10:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)reply
I just want st clarification on this before it's changed on the main page, I remember seeing on TWC that Bertha was producing high waves and rip currents all along the eastern coast of the United States. I know New Jersey is a definite due to the three fatalities but shouldn't the other states along the east coast be included?
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
16:03, 21 July 2008 (UTC)reply
You could mention that there were waves up and down the northeastern US, but more than that isn't necessary. The only effects worth mentioning in detail are the 3 deaths.
PlasticupT/
C16:41, 21 July 2008 (UTC)reply
I agree, technically Bertha did affect the Eastern Coast of the United States. You might want to put a side note saying it affected this area.
Hurricaneguy (
talk)
01:20, 28 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Haha, good timing. Hopefully I won't have to cite over 130 references for the article (following my tendency to cite every advisory). It'll take longer than I originally thought, so the completion should be within two weeks (mainly delayed because of school). I may have all of Wednesday off, so if I do, the completion date will be much sooner.
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
20:37, 20 October 2008 (UTC)reply