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RelHistBuff, you have removed the bit about Zwingli's music with the comment "replace, will expand": what will you expand, when and where? I will concur that the "legacy" section may not be the best place to discuss Zwingli-the-musician, but the topic is of some importance wrt his stance on music in religious service. Mention of his three surviving hymns should also be part of a comprehensive article on Zwingli. The 1960 article by Hannes Reimann (citation of which you have removed) is a good source for this. dab (𒁳) 13:11, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
The Reimann article is really quite comprehensive. It lists the known facts of Zwingli's musical education, and it lists the eleven instruments Bernhard Wyss claims Zwingli could play: lute, harp, pipe, bagpipes, tromba marina, dulcimer, vielle ("violin"), rebec, horn, cornett, boxwood flute/recorder. I know the article is 48 years old, but I really doubt the communis opinio on this topic has changed very much since. dab (𒁳) 14:45, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
The "Zürich Bible" is this publication, appeared 2007, ISBN 978-3-85995-240-9. The particular text contributed to by Zwingli is known as the Froschauer Bibel because it appeared with Christoph Froschauer from 1525. dab (𒁳) 18:11, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
literature: Traudel Himmighöfer, Die Zürcher Bibel bis zum Tode Zwinglis (1531) : Darstellung und Bibliographie (= Veröffentlichungen des Instituts für Europäische Geschichte Mainz 154), Mainz 1995
ISBN
380531535X. This English language
review unambiguously talks of the "Froschauer Bible". Now please let us not make this more difficult than absolutely necessary. This has nothing whatsoever to do with germanophone vs. anglophone. "Zürich Bible" is correct and mostly sufficient given the context, "Froschauer Bible" is more specific, in both English and German, and you should use it if you wish to refer to the first edition specifically. If we are going to argue, can we argue about something more controversial and more intersting please?
dab
(𒁳)
18:50, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
never mind. This isn't important enough. However, you appear to be relying on Gäbler and Potter over-much. If the "translation" I had removed here was really Potter's, I have grave doubts about Potter's reliability. There is a plethora of literature on Zwingli, and there is no need to rely on any one book in particular. At this point, I think you would profit from reviewing WP:OWN. As I say above, I am glad you have 'adopted' this article, but you'll need to recognize that it will not be "your" article. dab (𒁳) 09:06, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
ok, if you object to "Froschauer Bible", let's at least say "the Zürich Bible, printed by Christoph Froschauer", giving us the opportunity to link to Christoph Froschauer, who is certainly a person instrumental to the Zürich Reformation and Zwingli's impact. dab (𒁳) 13:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
ok. You see, at the time of our discussion above, there had been no Christoph Froschauer article. I have created one since, and since we have one now "the Zürich Bible, printed by Christoph Froschauer" is clearly the optimal solution. -- dab (𒁳) 14:18, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Why not nominate this for GA first? You will get valuable feedback that you can use in the drive for FA. -- SECisek ( talk) 01:41, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
The GA process is broken. I see no problem with going directly for FA. Submitting an article twice would be a waste of time. I have no basic objection to the present version qualifying as FA, except perhaps:
that said, the article is certainly a good coverage of the topic. Well done. dab (𒁳) 13:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Sure, this was no objection to FA-worthiness. What is lacking is a "Works" section. We cannot FA an article on a notable author that does not include a decent discussion of his written works. The "Selected works" section in FA John Knox is a bare minimum in my book. dab (𒁳) 15:39, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I think the ones listed now, from the 1995 Schriften, are sufficient. English translations of the titles would be nice though. dab (𒁳) 16:59, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
ok, I see the four volume edition is in modernized German, while the full edition is in the original Early Modern German. Consequently, the titles given are modernized. "Die freie Wahl der Speisen" is really "Erkiesen und Freiheit der Speisen" etc. It may be better to give the original titles and their English translations than taking the detour over Modern German. dab (𒁳) 22:28, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi all, RelHistBuff asked me to look over this article as a pre-pre-precursor to taking it to FAC. I'll do my best to help out! :) Willow ( talk) 21:18, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
OK, I finished it, and it reads very well, but it still seems a mite "rough" for FAC. It feels as though it would benefit from a stronger flow, and more rigorous integration of the various facts, so that even a casual reader is swept along and doesn't have to stop and think too much. ;) I would suggest adding an initial section about "Historical context" that paints the big picture for such a casual reader, you know the start of the Reformation, the factors religious and political leading up to it and favoring its growth, the political situation in Switzerland, etc. As one example, I added something about Erasmus' publication of the Greek New Testament as being a catalytic event in new Biblical translations, but that might be better worked into such a "Historical Context".
Another thing you might consider adding would be some summary statement of Zwingli's theology, or at least the issues on which it turned. You do a great job describing it piecemeal, in its chronological development, but I think it warrants its own section.
Also, how about more about Zwingli's personal life? I thought the sentences about his marriage very interesting, and would've liked to have heard more about Anna and his children, and the predicaments that might've caused him.
Hoping this helps, Willow ( talk) 23:31, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
The link to Anna Reinhart is wrong. It leads to another woman with that name that lived 200 years later. 84.241.68.188 ( talk) 16:25, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
I've read the article, but was left wanting to know more about the Confessions that he was involved in drafting. There's a note near the end that suggests he's responsible for the first Reformed Confession, but doesn't say what that was, and his list of works doesn't offer any clues to me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.27.236.140 ( talk) 22:22, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
I have added a couple of small edits including clarifying a couple of more negative issues for balance that seem to have been missed so far eg Zwinglis abolition of Church music, and his confession of personal immorality. Xandar ( talk) 12:35, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
There are a couple of other questions here - particularly with reference to the seizure of the monasteries. It is stated that Zwingli wanted to close them in the high-minded interest of caring for the poor. It is implied that this is what happened. I do not know the details so far, but elsewhere in Europe, although this was the stated aim of suppression, very little of the money actually went to the poor, mostly ending up in the hands of the ruling elites. If this did not happen in Zurich it would be a big exception. Xandar ( talk) 12:40, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
I've read through parts of this article and found a couple things that struck me as being maybe not entirely geared towards a lay audience. Hope these comments help improve the readability and accessibility of this article.
In the second paragraph of the lead, "the Church" is introduced without any proper antecedent, nor wikilink. To those not familiar with European history or the Reformation, it may be confusing to what religious body "the Church" is referencing, because there are clearly disambiguation issues. I was wondering if the article could be changed to insert a wikilink full title to the religious body in question. Again, in the 2nd paragraph of "Early years", it could be helpful to state what Church Zwingli went to work for.
Under "First rifts", the idea of fasting is introduced, but not explained (or even linked to). Imagine a Protestant reader who was raised outside of the Church, or even a non-Christian reader. Do you think this section would be above their head? I think linking to, and perhaps having a short clause explaining what fasting meant back then would be a good idea. The phrase "thus not punishable by the Church" is confusing because it implies the Church punished people for fasting (or even punished people for sinning). Is that the case?
I read this article a bit out of order, so I'm not sure if this is that big of an issue, but in the 2nd paragraph of "Legacy", the sentence "Under Bullinger, the confessional divisions of the Confederation were stabilised." made absolutely no sense (without having read the "Reformation in the Confederation" section). I'm not sure if there is a creative way to expand that sentence slightly so it doesn't rely so heavily on previous text (and explain what a "confessional division" is, which is the only place that phrase is used in the entire article)?
Anyway, hope this helps.- Andrew c [talk] 19:34, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
The original source, Gäbler, says the following:
As other critics had also done, Zwingli attacked the claim that the tithe was a divine institution. He asserted that its earlier meaning of "contribution to the church" must be regained.
Zwingli did not attack the tithe, nor even the institution of tithing, but the claim and this is understood in the context of the source. So the original sentence in the article is supported by the source. -- RelHistBuff ( talk) 22:58, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
The article does not clearly state that he was a priest. Why not? Example: "Like many of his contemporaries, Zwingli went to work for the Catholic Church having studied little theology." Went to work for the Catholic Church I assume means became a priest. Nitpyck ( talk) 17:12, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Apparently legends developed almost immediately after his death, on both sides of the confessional divide. This would bear some elaboration. I found Bullinger's account, which seems to be the origin of the pear-tree story (and which sounds credible enough, given Bullinger's no-nonsense character and his immediate proximity to events). Later there seem to have been accounts of treason on the Zurich side, and conflicting accounts on who actually killed Zwingli on the Catholic side.
Even later, there seem to have been other points, in Protestant hagiography stuff like this, [1]
but on the Lutheran side apparently also the "vile suggestion" that Zwingli was a combatant (while his own side reports that he merely accompanied his army but did not draw sword). Then there is the issue of his "relics", especially his helmet (which seems to be genuine, as it was kept as a trophy in Lucerne) his sword (where does this enter the record?) and finally his so-called "battle-axe", an interesting combination of handgun and axe also displayed in the Landesmuseum, but presumably its association with Zwingli is spurious(?)
I did what I could do in fifteen minutes, more research could go into these points. -- dab (𒁳) 12:31, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
Just for the sake of us ignorant Americans, could somebody throw in the correct pronunciation of his name? Both his first and last names, I mean, but especially "Zwingli." (I remember when I was a kid and I read this name for the first time, my initial thought was that whichever of his ancestors coined that surname must have worked for a pharmaceutical company. You know..."Ask your doctor about Zwingli®!" Admittedly, I didn't realise there weren't any pharmaceutical companies back in the 16th century (or whenever the Zwinglis first started using that name) — in my defence, I was only like six or seven.) Mia229 ( talk) 01:29, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
I was born and raised in the community (Gemeinde) of Kappel am Albis in Switzerland. We where always told, that Zwingli died during the second war of Kappel. Legend has it that he sacrificed himself at the front line to be stabbed by multiple warriors of the opposing (catholic) army. This act stunned everybody and caused a peace treaty and the subsequent eating of the Kappel milk soup. As a symbol of peace both armies eat from the same soup out of the same pot. There is a monument attributing Zwinglie's heroism on a hill overlooking the town of Kappel am Albis.
This detail is missing in your post — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.40.43.214 ( talk) 18:00, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
The facts prove that zwingly was ugly. I mean look at his knose. Good god yall that should be illigal to be that ugly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.91.136.174 ( talk) 02:00, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Sources from the 19th century are considered unreliable. These are anecdotes. Also self-published sources (the Baseley quote) are also unreliable. And it is only in the lead, not in the article itself. 193.109.199.11 ( talk) 16:36, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
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The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Huldrych Zwingli/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
The material from the Catholic Encyclopedia linked at the bottom of the article states that Zwingli was the third of eight sons and the top section of the article claims that he was the seventh of eight. Someone should get this page to agree with itself. 67.186.133.125 17:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC)Political Scientist |
Last edited at 17:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 18:26, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
pls help yourself (and maybe other wikipedias) with this brandnew, stone old signature. Maximilian ( talk) 16:29, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
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For God's sake Zwingli looks like a closet homosexual and we all know Calvin was arrested on sodomy charges. They"re all Germanic or fat stubby czechs for the most part and their names are impossible to pronounce, They certainly got what they deserved in World War 2.
Was he really a “Pastor” in 1519 or rather a priest? I recommend to check this since I am not sure, however I believe to have learned it differently. I rather think he was a priest becoming a pastor through his activities. I may be completely wrong but would like to leave this task for someone who is specialized in Zwingli’s work. OnSpeech ( talk) 10:17, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:53, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
Is the statement about the 7908 Zwingli main-belt asteroid necessary? I don't think any people are looking for that when they type Zwingli. Awsomaw ( talk) 18:34, 29 June 2020 (UTC)