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This article had incorrect boundaries for the entire neighborhood, which I have corrected in my first edit to this article. There was also a map with the same boundaries, which I have removed. The boundaries that had been posted in this article were those of the Historic Preservation Overlay Zone, not those of the neighborhood itself. I also removed a comment directed against the Los Angeles Times boundaries, which, as the Times has pointed out, are for the entire neighborhood, not just part of it. Click here to view my changes. GeorgeLouis ( talk) 01:45, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Harvard Heights, Los Angeles's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "MappingLASouthLA":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 22:42, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
The following is copied from my Talk Page. It was posted by User:Harvardheightshpoz at 16:36, 30 May 2013 GeorgeLouis ( talk) 19:09, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
The changes made to the article were necessary because your editing of the neighborhood boundaries is inaccurate. Since at least the year 2000, the City of Los Angeles Planning authority has clearly identified the area known as Harvard Heights in multiple citywide ordinances, planning documents, and zoning maps. Furthermore, your contention that a reliable source was not provided for these corrections is entirely untrue as two separate and publicly posted pdf documents created by the City of Los Angeles were cited to. These documents are: http://www.preservation.lacity.org/files/Harvard%20Heights%20Survey%20Map.pdf and http://www.preservation.lacity.org/files/Harvard%20Heights%20Ordinance.pdf which can be found at the City of Los Angeles Planning Department Office of Historic Resources website ( http://www.preservation.lacity.org/hpoz/la/harvard-heights). Unfortunately, the editing you performed relies on misinformation disseminated by the LA Times Crime Mapping unit. The publication has previously been informed in writing that the information contained on their website is inaccurate and is overly inclusive of surrounding areas that are not commonly considered, nor publicly marked as Harvard Heights by both residents and government alike. Furthermore, your citation source can be further contradicted when examined in conjunction with the popular real estate website zillow.com, which posits an altogether third set of boundaries for the neighborhood which is likewise inaccurate. Thus, it makes most sense to rely on the widely published information that City Planning and Zoning has relied on as the accurate boundaries of this neighborhood for the past 13 years. Furthermore, as a local resident of the neighborhood, I can attest to the fact that the neighborhood has been trying to correct this misinformation for years. These efforts to educate those who are not from the area have been very public, and have included the City sanctioned posting of Harvard Heights signs on every corner in the neighborhood between Western Ave and Normandie, as well as Pico Blvd to the 10 Freeway. For this specific reason, the wikipedia article was pursuantly edited in order to stop the flow of misinformation and point to reliable to sources for the Harvard Heights boundary lines. Please revert the edits to this wiki page to reflect this information.
The documents to which User:Harvardheightshpoz refers are not considered WP:Reliable sources but are simply evidence used in WP:Original research. I have been unable to find any WP:Reliable source other than Mapping L.A. that tells us where the neighborhood boundaries should be drawn. I believe that the data cited above refers only to the historic preservation overlay zone, which is not the subject of this article. GeorgeLouis ( talk) 19:17, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
The documents to which GeorgeLouis refers are not considered WP:Reliable sources but are simply evidence used in WP:Original research. Multiple sources across the internet provide conflicting data on where the neighborhood boundaries should be drawn, including popular real estate websites such as zillow.com. Prior to the year 2000, in which the City formally designated the boundaries of Harvard Heights, the neighborhood was comprised of two local neighborhood associations which together drew boundaries for the area, prior to any official historic preservation designation, at Pico Blvd on the north, the 1-10 Freeway on the South, Western Ave. on the west, and Normandie Ave on the east. Subsequently in 1999, the City Planning Department sent a registered architect to confirm whether such boundaries were accurate and historically correct, based on a survey taken of the entire area. The city confirmed such boundaries and further published a survey map in the year 2000 which confirmed that the Harvard Heights neighborhood has never included anything beyond the bounds of that map. Where the Los Angeles Times has derived it's data from is unknown, but it is further believed that due to the way in which the U.S. Census Tracts are divided, the LA Times has instead conveniently chosen to delineate the boundaries of the neighborhood falsely for ready statistical compilation of crimes in this way, rather than break down the tracts as necessary. Furthermore, some of the sections which the LA Times seeks to include in their crime mapping statistics do not currently have designated neighborhood names or identities in and of their own right, therefore myself and other area residents believe that it was easier for the LA Times to incorrectly lump some of these areas in with Harvard Heights, rather than parsing them out with untitled names. Thus the widely disseminated and published information provided by the local government dating back to the year 2000, which further reenforces the widely recognized area boundaries referred to by the residents since at least the early 1990s, is believed more relevant and reliable than the LA Times Mapping data which was produced after such dates. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harvardheightshpoz ( talk • contribs) 18:48, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
GeorgeLouis Thank you for the compass addition to the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harvardheightshpoz ( talk • contribs) 19:06, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
Harvard Heights, Los Angeles is a neighborhood in Los Angeles, California. It is also the name of a historic preservation overlay zone (HPOZ). The former is described and mapped by the Los Angeles Times, which User:GeorgeLouis considers to be a reliable source. The latter has been described and mapped by the city, which User:Harvardheightshpoz considers to be a reliable source.
There is an WP:Edit war brewing at the above article, with possible WP:Ownership and WP:Single purpose accounts as side issues. It is time to recruit other editors for comment.
During the past few weeks, I have been steadily editing the Los Angeles neighborhood articles, starting at the south in San Pedro, and traveling north. In all of them I have used the statistics and maps of the Times as source material because, well, it is just about the only WP:Reliable source for neighborhood boundaries that there is. All the rest, neighborhood councils and so forth, lack WP:NPOV because they all seemed to be self-serving. There were not many serious problems until I came to Harvard Heights and attempted to rely upon the Times research for boundaries and statistics. I made these changes, by which I defined the neighborhood as did the Times, I removed an attack that the article had made upon the Times's boundaries and I defined the borders of the HPOZ as the city had done, but under a separate header.
Most or all of these edits were reverted by Harvardheightshpoz with no Edit summaries, here, so I restored them here, and I also made some additional edits in which I removed the names of schools and other amenities that were outside of Harvard Heights. I gave reasons for the changes in almost all of the edits I did, which you can examine if you have time.
Again, Harvardheightshpoz made a series of unexplained reverts and changes]. That's when I decided to bring the matter here for wider attention by editors interested in Los Angeles. Please go over to the article's talk page for any suggestions on how to handle this situation. Thank you, GeorgeLouis ( talk) 20:38, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
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GeorgeLouis, while I believe your editing of the Harvard Heights page was made with good intent, unfortunately a considerable portion of the information you contributed is factually incorrect. With regards to the boundary discussion, the neighborhood has never included those areas beyond what the City historically designated only later. Local residents familiar with the area for generations have always stated as much. For this precise reason, the local residents partnered with the neighborhood associations to delineate the specific boundaries of the neighborhood with metal sign posts on each street corner, and to further correct any misimpressions created elsewhere (such as through the LA Times Mapping Unit).
In addition to GeorgeLouis' unnecessary removal of certain verifiable information, such as a notable resident and key founder of the LA Conservancy, which GeorgeLouis removed without comment or remark, GeorgeLouis additionally removed the bulk of relevant information found in the Education section. Prior to these edits, the section included all schools - both public and private which serve the residents in the area (and specifically distinguished which were physically inside the neighborhood). GeorgeLouis replaced this information with content which is not accurate and specifically added information including that Pacific States University was located in Harvard Heights, Los Angeles. This University has not been operating in the neighborhood for the past 4 to 5 years, which is a considerable amount of time, and which can further be confirmed with a Google search. Additionally, in the event that any Google maps images were referred to, a majority of the University properties on both Cambridge and 15th Streets have been sold in recent years and presently have been reverted to prior uses. My point is that it helps to have an editor who is local and knowledgable concerning the subject matter being addressed. It may be hard to believe, but online media outlets are not always correct. GeorgeLouis, I implore you to visit the neighborhood to check the accuracy of these statements, and to appropriately help safeguard the content being provided on the Harvard Heights page.
Additionally, I'd like to note that I am a new editor and contributor to Wikipedia, and as such am still learning the ropes. At this stage, I have only begun contributing to content with which I am familiar, so as to be certain that my contributions are relevant. Harvardheightshpoz ( talk) 05:11, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources. Secondary or tertiary sources are needed to establish the topic's notability and to avoid novel interpretations of primary sources, though primary sources are permitted if used carefully. Material based purely on primary sources [like your City Hall documents] should be avoided. All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than to the original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors.
Harvard Heights, neighborhood between Western and Normandie Avenues and Pico and Washington Boulevards. It was part of the West Adams district, a middle-class area annexed by the city of Los Angeles early in the century. Two-story Craftsman-style Victorian homes still abound there. The estimated population is 1992 was 7,235.
Slowly these Wikipedia articles about the neighborhoods of Los Angeles are being edited to remove the public-relations puffery and real-estate tone that many have received despite Wikipedia strictures to the contrary. One real-estate dodge within some WP articles is to claim nearby businesses, parks or schools as part of the neighborhood. This is a disservice to Wikipedia as an encyclopedia. We simply can't justify inserting the name of a school or business or historical landmark within any given article about a neighborhood when it simply is not part of that neighborhood. Readers come here to find out about Harvard Heights, not about anything close by that residents of Harvard Heights could conceivably walk to. Let's try to write about HH, not about other things. Of course if one could find within a WP:Reliable source that anything outside the neighborhood actually did have an effect upon that neighborhood then that would be a different matter. Thus I have reinserted the information about local schools and have just removed the info about the Latino-Byzantine district because it does not lie within Harvard Heights. GeorgeLouis ( talk) 03:05, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
User:Harvardheightshpoz may have a conflict of interest. Note the name of the user and the edits he or she made on the page that seem to have a non-encylopedic WP:Point of view. GeorgeLouis ( talk) 03:17, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
User:GeorgeLouis may have a conflict of interest. GeorgeLouis's pattern of contributions and editing to Los Angeles based content in Wikipedia articles has heavily and predominantly relied on information from the Los Angeles Times, and this user has failed to materially disclose that he [personal identification removed] and thus may have a potential WP:Conflict of Interest. When other users and editors, such as myself, have provided conflicting sources, references and information to edits that GeorgeLouis has performed based on his LA Times source, he continually cites to the LA Times as the only WP:Reliable source. GeorgeLouis lacks neutrality in his edits and in the majority of the article content continues to call out and refer to the LA Times by name when unnecessary, and/or the information cited to is conflicting with multiple sources. GeorgeLouis has not demonstrated good faith based on his repeated failure to reveal his affiliation and potential bias toward a former employer and the same publication outlet he promotes throughout the majority of the articles he has edited. GeorgeLouis has already engaged in discourse with myself and editor doncram, but refuses upon presentation of other WP:Reliable sources such as through widely disseminated government publications, maps, third party websites and photographs of neighborhoods to believe that the LA Times has been factually incorrect in reporting certain information, but in particular on Harvard Heights, Los Angeles. Please review the editing history for this page particularly, and this user's overall contribution history to other LA neighborhood based pages, particularly where he has removed other relevant sources and replaced them with LA Times references. It is highly relevant that an editor removing valid citations and sources and replacing them with largely one source, happens to be connected to that source. I would suggest another editor provide feedback to the Harvard Heights, Los Angeles page.
I have copied here the WP:COI question posed to GeorgeLouis on his talk page.
I have inserted a map of the neighborhood as drawn by the Mapping L.A. project of the Los Angeles Times. Another editor has removed it. I've returned it, but I certainly don't want an WP:Edit War, so if there is any objection to this map, why don't we discuss it here? What is the objection to this map, which is similar to those placed in other Los Angeles neighborhood articles? Sincerely, GeorgeLouis ( talk) 20:33, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
Removed this sentence from the opening paragraph: "The neighborhood has one private and two public schools. It is the site of a private library dedicated to the memory of singer Ray Charles."
That information is stated further down in the section on "Education". I don't understand why - unless perhaps all the sections should be summarized in the opening - this information gets stated twice in the article. Phatblackmama ( talk) 03:12, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
Some names were recently deleted with the reasoning: "not notable. Write article first." However, having an article is not a requirement for inclusion. I have restored 2 names, and have added additional citations. Phatblackmama ( talk) 21:05, 30 November 2018 (UTC)