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She's Muslim, bu without religious attachments
[1]. Of her upbringing she says, ""My parents are Muslims. They pray, they fast, they have been to Mecca, but they raised their children to think and feel as liberal, open-minded people."
Tiamuttalk13:17, 23 June 2010 (UTC)reply
I think that the spelling of her name should reflect the most common usage around the world. While Jewish Israeli sources spelling her name with the a, most outside interviews (which one think reflect common usage) spell her last name Zoubi. Moreover, the articles with her relatives are also spelled Zoubi. For consistency sake, we should spell her last name Zoubi.--
TM10:16, 21 June 2010 (UTC)reply
If her official site uses Zoabi, I'd support using Zoabi. Lots of outside sources:
The Times, the
Globe and Mail,
LA Times,
NPR and both pro- and anti-Israeli sources use Zoabi as much as anything else, even if they are less numerous that Zoubi. The argument about her relatives articles doesn't apply here: they could just as easily be changed to Zoabi, and could just as easily be incorrect at the moment. I feel that it's best in this case to stick to self published or official sources - her name is something that is often misreported, and with the possibility of more emails coming in to the BLP section of OTRS, I'd rather we had an official government page or her own biography to fall back on. For those who aren't aware, I'm informed by the person who contacted us that 'Zubi/Zoubi' is an Arabic slang term for 'penis', so this as the potential to fall afoul of BLP policy if we're not careful. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (
talk •
contribs) 11:51, 21 June 2010 (UTC)reply
It's from someone who lives in her community and knows the subject's family. As such, it matters because it's a comment from one of our readers - there's no special privilege attached to it. If it was from the subject directly, that's a different matter - the likelihood is that we wouldn't be discussing this at all!
Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (
talk)
13:49, 21 June 2010 (UTC)reply
If we are going with the official spelling on the Knesset site, and I am fine with that, why aren't we changing the spelling of the first name to
Hanin?
KeptSouth (
talk)
19:46, 22 June 2010 (UTC)reply
←[Redent]@Chase me - It seems that you have said you support the use of the official spelling of the name. It is Hanin Zoabi, per the official Knesset site. see
here and
here. It also seems that is the 2nd most common spelling, with the former spelling on this article "Haneen Zoubi" being the most common. The spelling you are now using for the title is rather uncommon. So what say you?
KeptSouth (
talk)
11:56, 23 June 2010 (UTC)reply
:As has been noted more than once, we'll use the official correct spelling (per Knesset & Haaretz), it's of no account that a large number of websites get this wrong. That's for the surname, no opinion on the given name, doesn't seem all that important.
Misarxist (
talk)
12:12, 23 June 2010 (UTC)per Tiamut belowreply
It boggles my mind that anyone would say that the spelling of the first name is not important, that we should in effect use the official spelling of her last name but not her first, and that Chase me seems to ignore that I have cited the official Knesset site which gives her name as Hanin Zoabi. I will link it again, as it seems to escape everyone's notice here.
here and
here.
KeptSouth (
talk)
12:58, 23 June 2010 (UTC)reply
I disagree with using the Knesset website as the source for the official spelling of her name. Transliteration from Hebrew/Arabic into English are notoriously unstable in Israel (every street sign has a different spelling) and I doubt very much that Zoubi signed off on the spelling of her name there. The mainstream English language media seems to prefer the spelling "Haneen Zoubi". Journalists writing a piece about a given subject generally tend to fact check the spelling of names with the subject herself. I believe the preponderance of sources demonstrates this is the correct spelling of her name. As Nazareth is a small town, I 've attended conferences Zoubi mediated here when she headed the NGO and seen her name written in English in programs in the form of "Haneen Zoubi" as well. Whoever wrote to Chase me ladies to say that "Zoubi" spelt as such means penis is wrong. Its the way everyone in that extended family writes their names, as evidenced by the pages here at Wikipedia on her relatives.
Tiamuttalk13:14, 23 June 2010 (UTC)reply
Well, basically I agree with you - but the page name was already changed, and I was commenting on the incongruity of using Zoabi as the spelling for the last name because that is the way the name was "offically" spelled in the Knesset website, and at the same time, not changing the spelling of the first name. I would support a revert of the name change so that the title of the page is "Haneen Zoubi" and the fact that "Zoubi" is the accepted transliteration of the names of her political relatives is very persuasive. Regards
KeptSouth (
talk)
13:37, 23 June 2010 (UTC)reply
I agree with you too. :) Given the high number of high quality RS' that use "Haneen Zoubi" and the use of Zoubi in the names for pages of her relatives, I don't think changing it in response to one email from a supposed relative is warranted )particularly as my own personal knowledge of the Zoubi family in Nazareth contradicts that emailer's assessment as well). Either way, you are correct in suggesting that a partial change is weird and that a revert to the original name "Haneen Zoubi" should occur until a formal move discussion can be convened should people find that necessary.
Tiamuttalk13:43, 23 June 2010 (UTC)reply
Ok thanks. (It just seemed that the Knesset and more local media stood a higher change of being right, oh well) I think it needs an admin to move it back because it's protected.
Misarxist (
talk)
13:48, 23 June 2010 (UTC)reply
Voting on name change/page move
I think we should take a vote on the spelling to use. It seems the spelling was changed suddenly, and without discussion or without much discussion.
Do not support - The current spelling is the spelling given on the official Knesset site. The other sources in the external site list that spell it otherwise are American/Canadian, and Cavalry's revelation that "Zoubi" is Arabic slang for "penis" is problematic. The Knesset spelling may be the only thing I would ever trust the Israeli government on.
Father McKenzie (
talk)
20:03, 30 June 2010 (UTC)reply
Arab Palestinian is the proper term, as identified by Balad generally and Zoabi specifically.--
TM14:23, 21 June 2010 (UTC)reply
The fact is that she is an Israeli citizen, and overlooking this in the intro is simply misleading. Describing her as a "Palestinian Arab who serves in the Israeli Knesset" does not make it clear that she is actually Israeli.
пﮟოьεԻ5714:40, 21 June 2010 (UTC)reply
←[Redent] This is how I have changed the lead -- for the most accuracy. She actually is an Arab-Israeli citizen - it is a legal question based on Israel's law - it is not a question of self-identification. If she wasn't legally a citizen (for the moment), she could not be an MK.
Haneen Zoabi (Arabic: حنين زعبي, born 23 May 1969) is an Arab citizen of Israel who serves as a member of the Knesset representing the Balad party. Elected in 2009, she is the first woman to be elected to the Knesset on an Arab party's list.[1] She self-identifies as a Palestinian.[citation needed]
KeptSouth (
talk)
14:36, 22 June 2010 (UTC)reply
She is not just "Arab". She self identifies as an Arab Palestinian citizen of Israel. This is the most accurate way to describe the opening paragraph. It includes her own national identification as well as her citizenship.--
TM15:27, 22 June 2010 (UTC)reply
Could somebody explain what is wrong with "Haneen Zoabi is a Palestinian Arab who is a citizen of Israel and currently serves as a member of the Knesset, representing the Balad party"? nableezy -
15:35, 22 June 2010 (UTC)reply
That seemed fine to me too. 'Arab Palestinian citizen of Israel' or 'Palestinian Arab citizen of Israel' are also fine. Her nationality and her citizenship have equal weight surely ? It's what makes her notable. Sean.hoyland - talk16:25, 22 June 2010 (UTC)reply
I also found Nableezy's edit to be fine, or, as Seanhoyland notes, the alternatives suggested by Namibia. How she self-identifies is central to how we present her identity and she identifies as Palestinian and Arab and as an Israeli citizen. Information and references supporting her self-identification are already cited in the body of the article, so there's no need for a citation tag after "Palestinian" or to make explicit that this is a self-identification.
Tiamuttalk16:56, 22 June 2010 (UTC)reply
A distinction that does make a big difference - When "self-identifies" is too close to "Arab citizen of Israel" and "Palestinian" it either
1. literally winds up reading as "self-identifies" as an Arab citizen of Israel or "self-identifies as Palestinian Arab citizen of Israel" which is incorrect because she is legally a citizen, or
2.even if it is phrased slightly better as Nableezy did, the two or three adjectives and identities (legal id and self id)get confabulated in the readers' mind as all of part of the same thing, and
3. the issue of having her Israeli citizenship revoked then begins to look like no big deal - it is minimized, because, after all, she "self identified" as a Palestinian-Arab-Israeli-citizen all along - so the issue of whether her citizenship is stripped appears to be of lesser consequence to the average reader than it actually is.
That is why I say the Palestinian identification which is a self-identification and not a legal one, should not be lumped with her legal status as an Arab Israeli citizen. This distinction is facilitated by leaving a little bit of space and not lumping. We have the space here, it is not a long article or a long lead at the moment, there is no need to condense it. We don't want to leave a false impression about the seriousness of the issue, or do we? Now of course, people here will respond, "but I can tell the difference", and to that I say, yes, you know more about Israel - Palestine issues than most people, what I am attempting to do here is have a clear statement that the average reader understands. Regards
KeptSouth (
talk)
19:17, 22 June 2010 (UTC)reply
We dont say "self-identifies" because identity is almost always self imposed. Her status as an Israeli citizen is not an "identity", it is a nationality. I am an American citizen, that does not in any way conflict with my identity as an Egyptian. My text also explicitly says she is a citizen of Israel, so I dont know where you are getting the idea of #3. As a number of other peopel have objected to your text I am restoring "Palestinian Arab who is an Israeli citizen and ..." nableezy -
19:52, 22 June 2010 (UTC)reply
@Nableezy - Egypt is a recognized country, Palestine is not, so it is not the same. A Palestinian is commonly thought of as a stateless person, who has no citizenship...anywhere. #3 above is because there is a movement to take away the citizenship of Arab-Israelis, in particular Hanin Zoabi. There are 2 editors who have agreed with me on not mixing up or combining Palestinian and Israeli-Arab citizen. Please see your talk page, where I will continue the discussion. I think if you think about this for a while, you might agree. - Regards,
KeptSouth (
talk)
20:44, 22 June 2010 (UTC)reply
Fine, my being an American citizen does not conflict with my identity as an Arab. A Palestinian Arab is an Arab of
Palestine. It does not depend on citizenship or anything else. There are Palestinian Americans, Palestinian Canadians, Palestinian Israelis. The first is an identity, be it ethnic or racial or whatever, the second is a nationality. Palestinians by and large would like to be citizens of a Palestinian state, but whether or not there is such a country does not change that they are still Palestinians. nableezy -
20:51, 22 June 2010 (UTC)reply
Well, now I see that this discussion is trending toward a discussion of Palestine and what Palestinians would like and whether the ethnicity exists, and this is all beside the point and irrelevant to the discussion that I started. But thank you anyway for being WP:civil.
KeptSouth (
talk)
12:13, 23 June 2010 (UTC)reply
I don't think you've understood Nableezy's argument correctly. The relevant guideline applicable here is
MOS:IDENTITY. It suggests that: "[...] the term most commonly used for a person will be the one that person uses for himself or herself, and the most common terms for a group will be those that the group most commonly uses for itself. Wikipedia should use them too."
In this particular case, we know that Zoubi identifies as a Palestinian (e.g. "It is frustrating and exhausting having always to be on the defensive about why I identify as a Palestinian, why I am not a Zionist, why the Jewish state is not democratic and cannot represent me, why I am entitled to citizenship. It is a Sisyphean labor."
[2]; "Zoubi is proud of her Palestinian heritage. The Zoubi clan, she says, is one of the oldest in the Middle East and she can trace the family's roots back over hundreds of years in the region [...] I am very much a Palestinian, but I do not want a state with special privileges for Palestinians; I am local, but I don't believe in localism."
[3]). Zoubi is also an Israeli citizen by virtue of the fact that she was born in Israel, carries an Israeli ID and is an elected member of parliament. Both these facts should be mentioned in the introduction. Omitting her Palestinian identity, which seems to be her primary identification, is wrong and not in line with our guidelines or policies.
Tiamuttalk13:07, 23 June 2010 (UTC)reply
←[Redent] The lead should not mislead. The discussion was about the particular wording that might not be clear to the average reader. As this "discussion" has continued, it has wandered far from the particular point I was trying to address. I do not doubt that Zoabi identifies as a Palestinian, and I do not appreciate a lecture that my point was "wrong and not in line with our guidelines or policies." Those sorts of remarks are gratuitous and incorrect, especially where the other person has declared the debate ended. Regards
KeptSouth (
talk)
13:21, 23 June 2010 (UTC)reply
It wasn't my intention to lecture you or anyone else. I was only trying to bring the discussion back to sources, guidelines and policies. If you feel further discussion is unnecessary, there is no need to reply. Have a good day.
Tiamuttalk13:30, 23 June 2010 (UTC)reply
Reading the article, I get the impression that the students on the course haven't been taught that Wikipedia is supposed to represent the significant points of view as represented by reliable sources, not their own personal opinions. ←
ZScarpia18:51, 18 August 2010 (UTC)reply
Religion
Is Zoabi a muslim or she is christian? I can't understand which is religion
User:Lucifero4
I've replaced it with a better image from
Commons. I'm afraid it's not possible to use your image without permission from the author (i.e. the photographer). Regards, ••hugarheimur18:58, 5 January 2013 (UTC)reply
I agree. the current image is not flattering to say the least. and with such a controversial subject, we must do our best with NPOV.
According to Facebook policy : "When you publish content or information using the Public setting, it means that you are allowing everyone, including people off of Facebook, to access and use that information, and to associate it with you (i.e., your name and profile picture)."
That clause does not release the image into the public domain. All it does is notify the user that people can see it and access it. We would need explicit permission. Torana added a better photo, so marking as closed.
Vacation923:54, 26 January 2013 (UTC)reply
Other Controversy section - BLP and neutrality issues.
On BLP and neutrality grounds I have
removed the Other Controversy section which read:
In June 2014 Zoabi refused to call the kidnappers of
three missing Israeli teens "terrorists." In a June 17 radio interview Zoabi attributed the kidnapping to the Palestinians living under occupation and having no alternative but harming unarmed hitchhikers. Other MKs called her "traitor" and herself a terrorist whose treatment should be that given to a terrorist.
The BLP ground for removing the section (at least until further consideration is given to it) is that some sources are asserting that the Israeli media is misrepresenting what Zoabi said (see, for example, this
972 article by Larry Derfner) so, from appearances, it is wrong to use a single Israeli source to assert potentially libellous 'facts' about a living person in the current case.
The neutrality grounds for removing the text for further consideration are that it implies that the kidnappers (whoever they may be) are terrorists (or must necessarily be described as terrorists), something no doubt disputable and something that we ourselves as Wikipedia editors would be forbidden from stating factually, that it most likely fails to consider other viewpoints (presenting one particular one as a fact) and that it most likely misrepresents her argument ("no alternative but harming unarmed hitchhikers" etc. when it appears that she actually said that she disagreed with the kidnapping).
According to Derfner, the key passage in Zoabi's remarks was: "Is it strange that people living under occupation and living impossible lives, in a situation where Israel kidnaps new prisoners every day, is it strange that they act this way? They are not terrorists. Even if I do not agree with them, they are people who do not see any way open to change their reality, and they are compelled to use means like these until Israel wakes up and sees the suffering, feels the suffering of the other." ←
ZScarpia16:59, 24 June 2014 (UTC)reply
I think we should add a recent controversy surrounding Zoabi
"17-year-old Mohammad Zoabi, a cousin of Balad MK Haneen Zoabi, made a video calling on “terrorists” to return the three yeshiva students missing in the West Bank since Thursday night and presumed to have been kidnapped.
“Those terrorists that have kidnapped our kids – bring them back, and you had better bring them back now!” exclaimed the young Zoabi, an Israeli flag in the background. Speaking in English, Arabic and Hebrew, he also addressed Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and his government.
“Wake up and stop cooperating with terrorists,” he told them, adding that the Palestinian Authority was the “biggest” terrorist.
“Our enemies do not separate between Arabs and Jews living in Israel,” he said.
Like his lawmaker relative, a resident of Nazareth, Zoabi said he was proud to be an Israeli , adding that the country should continue to be a Jewish and democratic state.
“I am happy to see that Israeli hasbara [public diplomacy] is in such a dire state that it needs a stupid boy with a twisted identity who feels a continuous need to apologize to his strong masters,” Haneen Zoabi told Ynet.
Soon after, Knesset Committee for the Advancement of the Status of Women chairwoman Aliza Lavie (Yesh Atid) asked Zoabi in a committee meeting: "How are [the kidnappers] not terrorists?"
"Shut up, you don't deserve to be a committee chairwoman. Are you policewoman? You are a racist," Zoabi shouted in response."
"The kidnappers of three yeshiva students last weekend are not terrorists, MK Hanin Zoabi (Balad) said Tuesday.
"They're people who don't see any way to change their reality and they are forced to use these means until Israel will wake up a little, until Israeli citizens and society will wake up and feel the suffering of the other," Zoabi said in an interview on Radio Tel Aviv, adding that the kidnappers live under occupation.
Soon after, Knesset Committee for the Advancement of the Status of Women chairwoman Aliza Lavie (Yesh Atid) asked Zoabi in a committee meeting: "How are [the kidnappers] not terrorists?"
"Shut up, you don't deserve to be a committee chairwoman. Are you policewoman? You are a racist," Zoabi shouted in response."
Before you follow up on your proposal, you should find a set of sources which agree on the course of events. For example:
In your Jerusalem Post
article it says this: "Soon after, Knesset Committee for the Advancement of the Status of Women chairwoman Aliza Lavie (Yesh Atid) asked Zoabi in a committee meeting: "How are [the kidnappers] not terrorists?" "Shut up, you don't deserve to be a committee chairwoman. Are you policewoman? You are a racist," Zoabi shouted in response.
However, in
this Israeli National News article it says this: ""How dare you say that the hijackers are not terrorists?" Lavie stated to Zoabi during the meeting. Hanin shouted, "Hutzpah! Shut your mouth, you do not deserve to be the Chairman of the Committee!" in response. "What are you, a cop?" Lavie responded. "You're just a racist.""
So, one article has Zoabi asking the other whether she's a policewoman and calling her a racist, the other article has it the other way round. They also both use quote marks but contain different wording within them. Hardly a sign of reliability!
Haaretz - Aeyal Gross -
With Zoabi’s suspension, Knesset moves toward fascism , 30 July 2014: Yesterday, the Knesset Ethics Committee used that statement to justify its decision to suspend Zoabi from plenum debates for six months, based on a law allowing MKs who violate the Knesset’s code of ethics to be suspended. Usually this panel only discusses statements made within the Knesset itself. It’s not the committee’s job to punish an MK for making political statements, however unpopular, and especially not when they were made outside the Knesset. The committee based itself on a rule stating that an MK “is a public trustee whose duty is to represent his electorate in a way that promotes human dignity, social progress and the good of the state.” Though MKs can act on their own interpretation of the good of the state, it said, Zoabi’s statement, made at a very sensitive time, did not promote the good of the state, violated her obligation as a public trustee and undermined public faith in the Knesset. ←
ZScarpia19:59, 30 July 2014 (UTC)reply
Zo'ubi
Actually pronounced Zu'ubi, the name should be written in its second form Zoubi.
As it is written now, it is the way it is pronounced, to the best of my knowledge, according to the Israeli accent, which currently refrains from using the gluttal 'Ayin, and mistaking the vowel-less writing in Hebrew of the Vav which could be read as a U or as an O, reading it as Zoe. Thus they pronounce the name Zoe- ah-bee. But listening to herself and others pronounce her name, it is Zu-' bee. With a gluttal ' after the u. Am I correct?
פשוט pashute ♫ (
talk)
15:17, 5 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Knesset members fought after Hanin Zoabi had called IDF soldiers 'murderers'
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