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Archive 1 |
...because they seem to think they're the only legitimate authority on African/"diaspora" religions and they've been pushing their POV on every article remotely relating thereto. Including this one. - ∅ ( ∅), 21:36, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm doing some general cleanup. One of the problems is that a handful of alternative terms are used on a sort of rotation basis. That is not a good plan under the MOS. There are two choices here: either pick a single term to use for the faith system throughout the article OR create an establishing paragraph to explain why Voodoo is not Vodou is not Vodoun is not Vudu. I will be happy to do either (the latter if someone can tell me why each term is used in different circumstances).
The phrase, suppressed Vodun as well as other forms of the religion gives us another problem. Vodun are described as the God-Actors in this faith system. Either the colonialists and despots suppressed the God Actors themselves (which would have been quite a feat) or they suppressed Voodoo/Vodou/Vodoun (pick one please). 72.40.90.183 03:07, 10 February 2007 (UTC) Oops. Got logged out. Kevin/Last1in 03:08, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
I removed my contributions from the page. The content is continuously bastardized by unknowledgeable contributors for political, commercial or whatever reason. It's not my job to discern folks' motivation. However, if you are making statements that are not supported by empirical evidence, your contributions are at best nothing more than mere speculation. If I wanted to co-write fiction, I would go to that part of the project. I do not want my name associated with the games that get played here. Look for my upcoming published dissertation for a more balanced approach to the subject. This is an excellent example of why Wikipedia is on 60 minutes for publishing fiction.
Dglossop 01:23, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Ummm, I'm just wandering if you can mention how Loco, a patron of healers in the Voodoo religion, is also the name of a charatcer in the anime and manga series MÄR, and the character herself is based largely off of the Voodoo religion. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 21:38, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Excuse me for my lack of knowledge about Wikipdedia. Long time user, but have never edited or requested a change.
I would like to request a dis-ambiguation, as there is a company called Voodoo in the UK.
I am planning to add in a page for Voodoo E-Commerce to distance it from the practise of Voodoo. Is this the right way to go about these thigs?
83.105.38.62 16:34, 13 September 2007 (UTC)Gordon Tebbutt 83.105.38.62 16:34, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
"It is very common for Dominicans to be very devout Christians but at the same time holding superstitions stemming from Voodoo practices [...]"
Now, this statement might be quite true, I don't know. But the wording makes it sound as if Christianity doesn't qualify for being superstition. Maybe someone could reword it to make it sound less like being written by a Christian who has to present his faith as the more rational one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.235.104.82 ( talk) 19:00, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
It seems that the segment about survival in the southern states repeats itself in the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs. I never edited before but if someone with more experience with it could check it out that would be cool —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.169.40.6 ( talk) 08:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
I know this has been discussed before, but it's been years and still no real improvement.
I can understand wanting separate articles for syncretistic American Voodoo in Haiti etc. vs. ancestral Voudun in West Africa - it's a bit like having separate articles for syncretistic Christianity vs. ancestral Judaism. But what we have now is two articles which cover both. Let's either merge, or have them cover separate topics - maybe with a disambig. tag at the top, "This article covers the Vodun religion of West Africa. For the related Haitian Voodoo, see 'Voodoo'." But that requires the articles be rewritten so that Vodun is covered under "Vodun", and Voodoo is covered under "Voodoo". kwami 05:53, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I propose we move Voodoo (disambiguation) to Voodoo over the redirect, instead of redirecting the latter to Afro-American religion like it does now, since there is a disambiguation page and "voodoo" has lots of other uses. See also Talk:Voodoo (disambiguation)#Move - ∅ ( ∅), 06:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
A bold user deleted the subsections in this article leaving large unattractive prose pieces. I added the subsections to the article, so that it can be maintained better. People are often not interested to read the whole text. This will increase overview of and interest in the article. Caco —Preceding comment was added at 17:51, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
As is obvious, the page still needs more work, including the addition of information on Lwa/Loas, Veves, Petro/Petwo, a list of Lwas, etc.
I cleaned up some grammar/spelling issues, removed some factual errors and unreferenced assertions, removed npov violators, redundancies, and irrelevancies (descriptions of unrelated churches, etc.) I also rearranged and removed redundancies and inappropriate sites from the external links.
The 'Vodou' page redirects here, but there's a disambiguation link to 'Vodou' at the top of this page. Is there a specific page for the topics covered by the 'Vodou' page?-- Jcvamp ( talk) 00:16, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
I think there should be one Voodoo article, linking to smaller sublets(IE vodou, new orleans voodoo, and w. african vodun) this article pulls in too much from vodun and voodoo(NOrleans). The only thing i've been able to confirm is Davis' book(Ethnobiology of Zombie) that he thinks a combo of ground up blowfish(extractung deadly narctoics) and other dangerous drugs are used in combo w/ hypnosis to create near dead zombies. No documented evidence just theories, but very grand 71.242.236.150 ( talk) 03:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
The "Liturgy and Practice"-section needs to be changed. First of all, it lacks any kind of source. It is written in an un-encyclopedial fashion, including grammatic errors. Some parts are not understandable, at least I don't get what the part "This is the greatest time these mambo or houngan can take your luck if they ask for champagne from you. Beware when that occurs." is about. I also think the article as a whole needs more sources, there's way too few of them. Note: I don't want to go because i and I lack sources. Please, someone work this article out! 80.217.106.159 ( talk) 17:18, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Christian-Voodoo relations seems like just about Haiti and the history of Voodoo there. The "relations" aspect seems like a bunch of tossed together "here's how one is, here's how another is" and WP:SYNTH of the two and their actual relationship and interplay. Seems like that would be fairly duplicative of what should be in Haitian Vodou. DMacks ( talk) 01:55, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
The bibliography manages to miss every single basic text on Vodou. Perhaps they are all bunk and we know better now, they still might be mentioned?-- Radh ( talk) 18:27, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Per WP:COMMONNAME: "Article titles are often proper nouns, such as the subject's name. Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it instead uses the name which is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources. This includes usage in the sources used as references for the article."
Nearly all scholarly and reliable references to Vodou, including all major publications on the subject, use the Kreyol spelling of Vodou to refer to the religion, and never Voodoo. As such, I am changing back the article's title, with citations, including an explanation of "voodoo" as an incorrect terminology, and not accepted by reliable sources. Chiwara ( talk) 02:12, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
This page has seen a high volume of edit warring recently, so I have protected it, until an agreed upon compromise has been reached on the talk page. I would advise the involved editors to read the Wikipedia policy on Wikipedia:Edit warring and also to be mindful of the 3 revert rule which states you cannot revert content more than 3 times in 24 hours. - AKeen ( talk) 19:16, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
Large blocks of text are plagarised from this article that was posted in 2003. (See especially the subsections on morality and liturgy & practice.) Neither the article nor the author is mentioned in the notes or the reference list. 142.177.157.209 ( talk) 02:49, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Whoever wrote parts of this is obiviously very opinionated as to what constitutes true voodoo. For example in the second paragraph of the Voodoo and Spiritualism Section: "Practitioners who claim that they do not feel fatigue after every possession, or who are possessed by more than one spirit without feeling tired, are charlatans." This isn't the only example of such stances throughout the article.
I agree, i've been trying to use this article to try and get an overview of Vodou in Haiti, but it's scatterbrained at best. Someone needs to elimenate a lot of the lexicon and voodoo jargona and just have 10-15 terms throughout, there are a lot of redundancies. 71.242.236.150 ( talk) 03:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC) It is very biased article was trying to make it seem false. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.125.209.175 ( talk) 03:10, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
In the subcategory about Voudou deities, it said that they considered themselves monotheists. I disagree with that description, as Voudou has numerous deities. I would label the religion as polytheistic, rather than monotheistic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.91.82.9 ( talk) 23:41, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Interesting. Thanks.-- Splashen ( talk) 17:52, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
In that case, there should probably be a mention of these lesser beings, much in the same sense that Christianity can't be discussed without some mention of angels and prophets. Teach267 ( talk) 17:40, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
I am going through the references list and doing an extensive clean-up, it may take a few days. I am streamlining the list of footnotes, and making sure footnotes correspond to references. Any books that were in the references list before, but were not cited, have been moved to a new section called "Further Reading." Thanks for the indulgence as I try to get the "lacking citations" tag off the article in the coming months! Chiwara ( talk) 03:40, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
We continue to not have an agreement as to the title of this article, as it was again changed to "voodoo". I will quote Wikipedia article naming policy on this: "Ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined by reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources. Neutrality is also considered; our policy on neutral titles, and what neutrality in titles is, follows in the next section. When there are several names for a subject, all of them fairly common, and the most common has problems, it is perfectly reasonable to choose one of the others." All the reliable sources cited concerning the naming of this religion explicitly endorse the spelling "vodou" instead of "voodoo", both to avoid confusion between the Haitian religion and that in New Orleans (actually called "voodoo"), as well as the pejorative connotations of the term "voodoo" in reference to Haiti. In addition, "vodou" is now, and for the past ten years has been, the most common name in English-language reliable sources on the subject. As such, I will be changing the name of the article back to Haitian Vodou. Chiwara ( talk) 02:23, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
Why does this article use lwa when that article is at Loa? Any reason not to change this? Jpatokal ( talk) 13:09, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
I'm wondering if Voodoo Doll merits an article in its own right- with more of the pop-culture aspects which aren't covered in the article ( Monkey Island to name one). Darien Shields 09:51, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
There seems to be something missing in the introduction. The second paragraph starts with "These dolls are known...", despite no dolls having been mentioned so far. Unfortunately I have hardly any knowledge on the topic and cannot really fix this myself. Elanguescence ( talk) 08:55, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
IcksPigeon (
talk) 23:56, 14 August 2013 (UTC)Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).One of my favorites is an early one with Bob Hope called "The Ghost Breakers", later remade with Martin and Lewis as "Scared Stiff". Also, in 1932, " White Zombie", just thought I would mention those, probably one if not the earlyist.
IcksPigeon (
talk) 23:56, 14 August 2013 (UTC)J
IcksPigeon (
talk)
23:56, 14 August 2013 (UTC)Jʔɡɪ23:56, 14 August 2013 (UTC)23:56, 14 August 2013 (UTC)~~
The practice of Voodoo is heavily overstated in New Orleans; its practice is almost non-existent, and is barely worth mentioning. For the most part it is a tourist attraction and the practitioners are not genuine. As far as the history goes, from what I know it was brought to New Orleans after Toussaint Louverture's revolution in Haiti - which caused many Santo Domingan slave owners to flee to New Orleans in 1806 - bringing their voodoo practicing slaves with them. I don't believe it had any presence before then. -- Kelt65 ( talk) 19:26, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
VooDoo is one thing I will not because I think it's scary to little kids and I .! Butler102801 ( talk) 00:21, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
That's So Raven was one of the best TV shows and now it's over. That's So Raven is my favorite show of time. That was on my mind. Butler102801 ( talk) 00:28, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
I inserted a section about death and the afterlife because it is sorely needed to give important information about a large part of Vodou rituals. Palmer827 ( talk) 19:46, 4 October 2013 (UTC)palmer827
It is one thing to have the article named vodou but someone keeps trying to
remove the fact that it is also spelled voodoo historically and is still widely accepted. There is nothing wrong with keeping that in the article and per our
common name policy, it should be there. In fact there is enough argument based on this
Ngram comparison to rename the article.
—
Berean Hunter
(talk)
23:46, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
Hello everyone.
"PSD was petitioned by a group of scholars and practitioners of vodou to change the spelling of the heading "Voodooism." They successfully argued that vodou is the more accurate spelling, and that the spelling "voodoo" has become pejorative. The base heading was revised to Vodou on this list, and all other uses of the word "voodoo" in references and scope notes have also been revised." [1]
The word "voodoo" has been used mainly throughout the American society, while taking a look at its own practices in New Orleans which separates itself from Haitian vodou and the west African religion even though it ties its origins within them. "Voodoo" has never been a spelling for the Haitians, but it has for the people of New Orleans. Therefore, a section for an alternative spelling is irrelevant here if that list includes the word "voodoo." The word is viewed as a negative connotation to describe the Haitian religion and is no longer accepted as such and has been tried. Judging by the ruling, its spelling has been successfully revised to its true spelling, much distancing itself from the practices held in Louisiana even though its origins are in fact very similar. (In fact this article already mentions this information of its revision and the transition from voodoo to vodou; so in addition to this would make it repetitive weakening the article for readers while instilling propaganda). As a result, you cannot spell Haitian vodou as voodoo anymore and it cannot be an alternative spelling. As for West African vodou, its founder, it is more note worthy to mention the fact of its derivative spellings because of the fact it is found around the world. Example: In Cuba, santeria is their version of vodou. To coin santeria as "voodoo" might be considered insulting even if its roots are the very same. However, it can be noted on the West African vodou article the fact that one of its derivatives is santeria and the fact that they are historically related because of the influence of both Haitians and West Africans.
My objective in certain cases, is quantity over quality. I believe this category falls into that as well. Thank you for creating this talk page. I am open to hear your views. Savvyjack23 ( talk) 02:58, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
—
Berean Hunter
(talk)
15:19, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
I suppose you have a point. I overlooked the article again, it is acceptable. Thanks for taking the time to chat. Savvyjack23 ( talk) 06:38, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
While the article contains much useful information and is good in many ways, it is far from a comprehensive description, and it appears that, in the efforts to dispel misconceptions, a certain amount of redaction has crept in. Some of it is based on studies that are of U.S. origin seemingly without first-hand knowledge. By way of clarification, see for instance, Voodoo Truth and Fantasy (Gallimard 1993, trans. Lory Frankel) by Laënnec Hurbon, Director of Research at Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique and Professor at the Quisqueya University Haiti. Only scant attention has been given to one of the most authoritative works on the subject, that of Maya Deren, respected North American academic who spent three years as an accepted member of the Haitian community. Her book, and her film footage that was eventually pieced together into a documentary film of the same name (The Divine Horsemen) also presents a slightly different picture, and she notes differences between her first-hand experience of Vodou/Voodoo and that of more standard (further removed) anthropological approaches that did not concern themselves with certain ways of studying the subject (Deren's work is both experiential and multidisciplinary).
One should also remember that the first major exposure to Haitian Vodou outside of its own country was in the non-fiction work by journalist and explorer, William Seabrook, who spent considerable time in Haiti witnessimg Vodou practices (Harrap & Co 1929, The Magic Island). Seabrook's work has sometimes reviled today as 'yellow journalism', yet dismissing him out of hand fits almost too conveniently with the current Western approach of reducing controversial practices to 'myth' and 'superstition', or trying to suggest that a persecuted religion is really in essence similar to modern Christianity in many of its beliefs (a misreading that is all too readily 'accepted' within the syncretism of Vodou). Seabrook might be credited with bringing the idea of 'Haitian zombieism' to the West, and subsequently the fantasy films that are pure fiction.
While Seabrook's tone created impact, a forerunner had appeared in the form of a book by Sir Spencer St. John, England's Resident and Consul-General in Haiti for more than two decades (Smith Elder 1884, Hayti or the Black Republic). The distateful and negative tone of the book cannot be ignored; but neither can the detailed, apparently corroborated accounts of vodou practices that, even if not practiced today, are part of the Vodou history as well as folklore.
Not withstanding the sensationalist style of writings such as those of Seabrook, some academic analysis has to a great extent verified many of his alleged witnessed accounts by presenting corresponding evidence from other observers (See, for instance: Voodoo in Haiti, in: Williams J, "Voodoos and Obeahs: Phases of West India Witchcraft", Dial Press 1932. Or for more recent scholarly analysis, also with copious citations: Bishop K, Dead man still walking: A critical investigation into the rise and fall...and rise of Zombie cinema, ProQuest 2009.) In her specific and unemotional examination of Seabrook's claims, Gyllian Phillips also draws attention to he fact that, after painting stories of 'zombies' in the most attention-grabbing way, he admitted that he is not attributing certain events to anything supernatural, but as brought on by psychological weaponry and/or pharmaceuticals. Phillips is non-committal on whether to accept Seabrook, but other's have pointed to the not unrelated pharmaceutical possibility of triggering Cotard's Delusion. (Phillips G, White Zombie and the Creole: William Seabrook's The Magic Island and American Imperialism in Haiti, in: Boluk S, Lenz W (eds), "Generation Zombie: Essays on the Living Dead in Modern Culture", Macfarland & Co 2011.)
There are maybe two quite important challenges here I feel. Firstly there is a need for sensitivity towards a persecuted religion that probably bears scant relation to the more egregious practices associated with it some hundred years ago. Secondly there is possibly a clear call for an encyclopaedia article to include accounts of practices now deemed less savoury, whether of 'zombie rituals' or (more strongly historical) accounts of cannibalism in times passed. While there is no great need to go into gratuitous detail about past abuses, some balance to avoid a purely sanitised account would seem desirable. Some supporters (or modern day parctitioners) of Vodou might welcome almost quaint 'folk superstion' image of their religion that is perhaps now seen as politically correct, the long-term disadvantage could be that powerful psychological experiences and techniques of trance and possession, including the positive or holistically therapeutic ones, become lost.
See also: (psychology):
Vodou, Possession and the Revolutionary Unconscious
Neurophysiological and Psychological Approaches to Spirit Possession in Haiti
Voodoo Death I Parzivalamfortas ( talk) 05:38, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
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In section one, Names and Etymology, second sentence, a quotation is ooened, but there is no closing Quotation mark. Hard to tell how much is being quoted. I will try to research the history, but I may just delete. rags ( talk) 12:39, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
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I edited the article on Vodou, and split the information between two distinct articles: Voodoo and Haitian Vodou. Again. I am planing to write more on "Voodoo" in the next two weeks and will move all information related to African Vodun back to the Vodun page.
I am doing this for the following reasons:
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Dglossop ( talk • contribs) on August 20 2006.
This article seems to say nothing of what this article on Voodoo notes. I think the information on that is quite usable, besides, that is what shows up when you search voodoo on Google. § User:Bugatti wikipedio
can we get a solid (or close to solid) number on the followers of this faith. I guess any number would have to include the majority of Hait's population, adherents to similar or derivative religions in central/south america, and the populations of Benin and Togo.
"The Haitians revolted and got something themselves free."
I think "something" should be removed. However, I am hesitant to make the change when the error may lie elsewhere. LunaCelestial ( talk) 05:38, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
I propose merging Haitian mythology into Haitian Vodou. This was first suggested years ago by User:Chiwara, and remains as valid today as it was then. The title Haitian mythology suggests a broader topic area that might include Haitian Vodou as a child article in a WP:Summary style relationship, but in seven years there has been no progress towards that. With the exception of a "Related notions" section (which would be better served as a See also section), the entire content of the Haitian mythology article is, in fact, about Haitian Vodou. Article size is not a problem; the former is a stub and could easily be merged here.
Note that the Haitian Vodou sidebar (Part of a series on Haitian Vodou) does have a Mythology section, with six links, suggesting that some sort of Haitian mythology article could be written as a parent article. The problem is, it has not been, and the current content of the article with that name violates Article title policy, which says, "The title indicates what the article is about and distinguishes it from other articles." The current content of Haitian mythology violates this simple statement of policy on two counts. Something needs to be done. Mathglot ( talk) 20:35, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
Notifications: Notifying creator and top contribs:
Vodou: @ Kwamikagami, Dallin Tanjo22, Dglossop, Chiwara, Sreyn11, Elizabeth Chantal, Charlesdrakew, I do not exist, and Sreyn11: Also (unpingable, no recent contribs): 67.84.73.82 ( talk · contribs), 70.89.69.221 ( talk · contribs), 203.89.173.247 ( talk · contribs).
Mythology: @ Laura Elizabeth, Timsha54, Qyd, DadaNeem, Omo Obatalá, Savvyjack23, DESiegel, Jwillbur, David notMD, and T@nn:. Also (no recent contribs): 69.248.213.74 ( talk · contribs), 72.177.37.33 ( talk · contribs).Merging under 'Haitian Vodou' sounds good to me. — kwami ( talk) 20:59, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
Here is some unsourced material ported to the article by PyroFloe from rev. 978115309 of Guinee before it was turned into a redirect. If sourced, this could be a good addition; previously added to section #Beliefs in top position.
Content moved from another article.
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In Haitian Vodou, Guinee is the spirit world. It is where the souls of the dead live. It is controlled by the loa Baron Samedi, believed to be the symbol of life and death. There are seven gates through which Guinee can be entered. They are as follows: The spirits of the dead have to pass through these seven gates to be reunited with the already dead ones. Many practitioners of this faith believe that these seven gates are physically present in different areas in New Orleans. |
Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 10:23, 3 January 2021 (UTC)