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I have serious doubts on the preparation of syngas, the use of ZnO as a desulfurization reagent is obsolete, as is the CO2 separation by K2CO3. maybe this was the original process, no? CO2 is nowadays removed by pressure swing adsorption, and desulphurization is also performed more modernly... Sikkema ( talk) 09:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
The results of what exactly Nature suggested should be corrected is out... italicize each bullet point once you make the correction. -- user:zanimum
These have been corrected already. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 13:50, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
"1% of the world's energy supply is consumed in the manufacturing of that fertilizer (Science 297(1654), Sep 2002)."
I'm assuming this should be "1% of the world's annual energy consumption …"? -- Andymussell 03:03, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Well Ammonia is a very useful chemical so it makes sense it takes a lot to make. LoyalSoldier 05:56, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
I've added related links because the amonium production process is very linked to these articles
I hope ya like it
regards -- User:richardba 02:30, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
by increassing pressure will also incress the reactian products? but has weakness can be overcome by?
I understand the catalyst is very important to this reaction; without it the reaction would be too slow to be commercially viable. Could someone go into greater detail on that?
I have rewritten the whole article, expanding it, and providing more detail on the reactions that take place. I used most of the previous information anyway, after just moving it around. A.Tomberg 20:52, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
I gave different estimates exactly because wasn't sure of the exact values. So could someone please find a reliable source and give those values with a reference. I hope that would solve the problem. -- 85.210.148.155 21:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
The pressure varies from one plant to another.
Where is the hydrogen used usually sourced from? 220.253.146.79 12:26, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Now the article says it is produced from natural gas (which is true for 95% of the hydrogen production in the world), but it should not cover how hydrogen is produced in detail, since the hydrogen production is not considered a part of the Haber process, and also is covered elsewhere.
There is an error in the table of equilibrium constants. They do NOT obey van't Hoff (try plotting ln(K) vs 1/T to test it yourself). I suspect the 25C was meant to be 100C, as that would look a lot better. BUT, I don't have a reliable source for these constants to hand, so I cannot correct this now, I hope one of you can. 99of9 07:37, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
In addition, Le Chatelier's principle does not apply to heat as a product or reactant for exothermic and endothermic reactions, respectively. Increasing the temperature simply shifts the equilibrium constant closer to 1 as K = exp(-delta G/RT). In other words, you cannot use heat to force the reaction backwards or forwards past K = 1, so this is not an application of Le Chatelier's principle. Lcscipiop ( talk) 17:53, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
This article is a bit of a mess - loads of information but repetitive, occasionally confusing, too chatty and informal - reads a bit like an A-level essay when it comes to describing the effects on equilibria and reaction rates. The introductory paragraph is especially weak:
1. The Haber Process is not the reaction between nitorgen and hydrogen but it is the whole industrial set-up required to make that reaction happen in a viable manner; 2. "The Haber process is important because ammonia is difficult to produce, on an industrial scale". Er ... except by the Haber process... one might make the same claim for any industrial process. 3. "Even though 78.1% of the air we breathe is nitrogen, the gas is relatively inert due to the strength of the triple bond that keeps the molecule together." Atmospheric abundance is only tenuously related to the character of the N-N bond; "keeps the molecule together" - what is this? marriage guidance or what??? 4. "It was not until the start of the twentieth century that this method was developed ... " Is this an implied criticism of human slackness in not coming up with this sooner... 5. "which can then be oxidised to make the nitrates and nitrites essential for the production of nitrate fertilizer and munitions." Or not.
And that's just paragraph 1. Unless I get flamed I might edit some of this in future... Galatian 12:50, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't this section touch on the historical effects the HP had on Chile? From what I understand ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific#Long-term_consequences) they were severe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctor Optimal ( talk • contribs) 20:08, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
The inputs are (apparently) methane, air, H2O, CO, and K2CO3
The steps seem to go back and forth between CO2, H2O, and H2.
If I understand it correctly:
"Steam reforming" converts CH4 + H2O to H2 + CO2. It says there are two steps, identifies one step, but not the second step. Or is "Secondary reforming" the second step?
In "Secondary reforming", the mixture is combined with air (N2 and O2). Some of the H2 combines with the O2 to make H2O, leaving N2.
In the "two shifts", CO is added to the mixture; it takes the O from H2O, recovering the H2. (Where does the CO come from?)
The CO2 removal seems pretty straightforward.
The "Methanator" is a little obscure: how is the methane "recycled", and what becomes of the H2O generated?
I see that the bold-face numbers at the right are the N2:H2 ratios at each stage.
If this could all be stated in lay-acceptable language, it would be much easier to understand.
-- Rich Rostrom ( Talk) 08:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
The second reaction from the steam reforming step is simply the shift reaction which doesn't happen untill later in the process, so that is wrong.
The reaction given for secondary reforming is a side reaction and not the reason why secondary reforming is done, I have added the correct reactions and a small explanation
All the stuff about moles in and out and the N2/H2 ratios are just plain wrong, so I removed the lot of them User:Yoenit 11:21 13 March 2008 —Preceding comment was added at 10:26, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Sorry if this doesn't reflect deep thought, or recent schooling.
The article seems to say (at the highest level) that CH4 + H2O + N2 + O2 => NH4.
Aren't we missing a few C's and O's on the output?
My misunderstanding centers on the sentence "The gas mixture is now passed into a methanator which converts any remaining CO2 into methane."
To my confused eyes, that would seem to convert exactly all of the desired output (H2) plus the undesirable CO2 back into CH4, which was the original input.
I would like to see the article directly address what comes out of this process. Where does the C end up? Not as endlessly recycled CH4, I guess.
Of course if this is an idiotic question, remove it.
Lllbutcher ( talk) 08:00, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
This source says nothing about the production of hydrogen from natural gas being part of the process, whereas the article implied that it was, so I have amended the article accordingly - hope that is right? Engineman ( talk) 04:38, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
From Dirac Delta Science and engineering encyclopedia http://www.diracdelta.co.uk/science/source/h/a/haber%20process/source.html
"The Haber process, named after Fritz Haber, is an industrial process in which ammonia is manufactured by direct combination of its elements, nitrogen and hydrogen. The reaction is carried out at 400 to 500°C and at 200 atmospheres. The two gases (nitrogen and hydrogen), in the proportions of 1:3 by volume, are passed over a catalyst of finely divided iron. Around 10% of the reactants combine, and the unused gases are recycled. The ammonia is separated by either dissolving in water or cooling to liquid form".
In the book A Most Damnable Invention by Stephen Bown it says that nitrogen fixation was already known in the 1850's by other scientists and that the only thing that Fritz Haber had contributed to the process was the catalyst which was replaced with a different catalyst by Carl Bosch for the industrial production. So should Fritz Haber really deserve that much credit?
I believe the degree symbol means that the reaction is done under standard conditions - 1 atmosphere of pressure, and at either 0°C or 25°C depending on who you ask - and the Haber process is naturally not at these conditions. If the degree symbol means something elsewhere, feel free to revert. UltimateLurker ( talk) 19:01, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
There is little mention of the environmental consequences of the Haber-Bosch process in this article. the only mention is
here are a few of the deleterious environmental consequences of synthetic nitrogen
Was the ammonia first converted to potassium nitrate and later converted to other chemicals in WW I? What I know is that you go directly to burn ammonia with air and react it with water to form nitric acid. Most of the expolsives in WWI were already organic nitrate compounds not inorganic nitric mixtures like black powder. -- Stone ( talk) 12:56, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
Would someone find that statistic again? It seems to be missing from all the citations in both the Fertilizer and Haber process articles. And find it in something that's not hidden behind a paywall. No one's going to look in Science to find a simple stat that should be available freely on a government or industry website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.253.17.174 ( talk) 23:44, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
I added the refimprove template to this page because there are few sources on some of the most important sections. The following is an example: The final stage, which is the actual Haber process, is the synthesis of ammonia using an iron catalyst promoted with K2O, CaO and Al2O3: citation needed
This is done at 15–25 MPa (150–250 bar) and between 300 and 550 °C, as the gases are passed over four beds of catalyst, with cooling between each pass so as to maintain a reasonable equilibrium constant. On each pass only about 15% conversion occurs, but any unreacted gases are recycled, and eventually an overall conversion of 97% is achieved. citation needed
The steam reforming, shift conversion, carbon dioxide removal, and methanation steps each operate at absolute pressures of about 2.5–3.5 MPa (25–35 bar), and the ammonia synthesis loop operates at absolute pressures ranging from 6–18 MPa (59–178 atm), depending upon which proprietary design is used. citation needed
I don't know where to find sources, but if anyone does, please help improve the page. 193.63.43.186 ( talk) 15:10, 26 April 2012 (UTC) Woops. I wasn't logged in there. rdm_box 15:11, 26 April 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rdmbox ( talk • contribs)
Does "ranging from 6–18 MPa" actually mean "ranging from 6 to 18 MPa" or "ranging from 6–18 MPa to 25 MPa (given in the previous paragraph)"? — Mikhail Ryazanov ( talk) 00:16, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Given Carl Bosch's equally-important participation in creating the process, it seems like a glaring mistake to leave his name out of it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.38.229.19 ( talk) 06:19, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
The article currently contains: "In industrial practice, the iron catalyst is prepared by exposing a mass of magnetite, an iron oxide, to the hot hydrogen feedstock".
I seem to recall hearing that, in order to ensure sufficient purity, a synthetic form of iron oxide is used: jeweller's rouge, for this purpose prepared in situ within the catalyst bed itself by destructively distilling ferrous oxalate that has itself been obtained in a pure form by the double decomposition of pure solutions of ferrous chloride and sodium oxalate. However, a quick glance at the relevant articles suggests that ferrous oxalate could be worse for this purpose than ferric hydroxide as ferrous oxalate produces finely divided iron as well as iron oxide(s), so possibly I am misremembering or possibly the iron produced just doesn't matter. Can anyone provide accurate details and citations for all this and update the article accordingly? PMLawrence ( talk) 13:46, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
What about adding this graph to the article? See de:Haber-Bosch-Verfahren#Großtechnische Anwendung on how it could be done. -- Leyo 14:14, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
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Hey all, link #13 (Wennerström, Håkan; Lidin, Sven. "Scientific Background on the Nobel Prize in Chemistry 2007 Chemical Processes on Solid Surfaces" (PDF). NobelPrize.org. Swedish Academy of Sciences. Retrieved 2015-09-17.) is broken. I'm gonna do my best to find the .pdf mentioned and repair it. Klajborw ( talk) 03:14, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
Article says:
What is supposed to be the evidence for the above statement? As far as I see, increasing the pressure reduces K considerably. And where does even come from? 2001:4CA0:0:F298:2010:8CCD:7072:1BE7 ( talk) 14:54, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
Is this a real thing? Google scholar doesn't seem to think it is. It was added here by @ Minihaa. Pelirojopajaro ( talk) 19:49, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
With average crop yields remaining at the 1900 level[,] the crop harvest in the year 2000 would have required nearly four times more land[,] and the cultivated area would have claimed nearly half of all ice-free continents, rather than under 15% of the total land area that is required today
Thus, the Haber process serves as the "detonator of the population explosion", enabling the global population to increase from 1.6 billion in 1900 to 7.7 billion by November 2018.
The haber-bosch process resulted in dust bowl effects on land, rendering it unusable for subsequent crop seasons. Innovations in crop breeding and the development of pesticides have been the single greatest contributor to higher crop yields and improved nutritional value. The author of these claims is not an RS, he's more a science communicator than a practicing environmental scientist. His PhD was in geography not botany. 136.25.121.198 ( talk) 19:41, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
this is a commonly cited statements (that without Haber ammonia, we couldn't feed the current world population), including by authorities like Vaslav Smil. I would treat it with utmost respect. just find the RS reference. Jazi Zilber ( talk) 16:13, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
Before the development of the Haber process, early methods, such as the high inefficient Birkeland–Eyde process and the Frank–Caro process, had been difficult to produce ammonia on an industrial scale.[4][5][6]
Is this good? Ktsquare (talk) 03:35, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
would it not be more correct for the name to be "Haber-Bosch process" i've seen that name used on the page in other languages, and i believe it would be right to reference Carl Bosch's work. if not, then please enlighten me Rotcrafter ( talk) 07:00, 17 April 2023 (UTC)