This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Poland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PolandWikipedia:WikiProject PolandTemplate:WikiProject PolandPoland articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lithuania, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Lithuania on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LithuaniaWikipedia:WikiProject LithuaniaTemplate:WikiProject LithuaniaLithuania articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please
join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles
Great Sejm
Would it make sense to retitle this article, "
Sejm Wielki," to "
Great Sejm"? That is what the Polish name means, and no other
sejm has been called that.
In the "1791-1792" section, try to clarify the phrase "Russian adherents".
Also, the following sentence says "the Sejm met with only 182 members present, about a third of its 'dual' number". Yet the first sentence of the preceding section ("1789-1790") says there were 181 deputies, joined by another 171. So 182 members meeting should be about half, not a third, of its dual number.
Stylistic issue, but we generally avoid abbreviations - so more formal encyclopedic writing would be "United States Constitution" - which is indeed the actual title of the article.
Instead of "The Constitution of May 3, 1791, was..." I suggest (but do not require) "The Polish Constitution was... " or "The 1791 Constitution was..." to avoid the awkward comma placement.
There a reason you have the citation on the phrase "The Constitution introduced political equality between townspeople and nobility and placed the peasants under the protection of the government"? If it is because it doesn't appear in the body of the article, it should and needs to appear there, rather than just in the lead.
Double linking of "sejm" in the lead - once in the lead sentence and once in the second paragraph. Double check for other duplicate links - you've got Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and a bunch of them in the body of the article.
I wanted to run the "Highlight duplicate links" tool but it's seems broken for me, I asked for help
here. In the meantime I removed a bunch I thought were not necessary, hopefully the I'll be able to use the tool and run it in within few days for the rest.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
talk to me23:23, 29 May 2012 (UTC)reply
"Even before the First Partition, a Polish noble, Michał Wielhorski, an envoy of the Bar Confederation, had been sent to ask the French philosophes Gabriel Bonnot de Mably and Jean-Jacques Rousseau to offer suggestions on a new constitution for a new Poland." has FOUR citations - are they really necessary? That seems to imply that there is really something contentious that is not being stated ... why the need for more than two cites?
When I write articles, I often try to find refs for all claims. It is likely the case that this sentence is a synthesis of four sources (for example, only one may mention his first name, only one may mention he was an envoy, only one may mention Mably, and so on). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
talk to me23:23, 29 May 2012 (UTC)reply
"...when the First Partition was already underway." The only problem is... you don't ever state what the "First Partition" was... you easter egg linked it as "the first" instead... this is confusing to non-specialists.
The listing of "notable works" is really a bit too much detail here - especially as none of these "notable works" have articles yet. Suggest "Notable works advocating the need to reform and presenting specific solutions were published in the Commonwealth itself by Polish-Lithuanian thinkers such as Stanisław Konarski, Józef Wybicki, Hugo Kołłątaj, and Stanisław Staszic in the years between 1761 and 1787."
Actually, I probably would. As it is, right now we don't show how these works influenced the actions of the sejm... if one of them advocated positions taken by the sejm, we need to state that. It really is a lot of detail that's just there right now, it doesn't really tie in the titles to the actions of the sejm nor increase our knowledge of the sejm to have these titles floating out there.
Ealdgyth -
Talk23:25, 29 May 2012 (UTC)reply
Something's off in "Many supporters of the reforms were gathered in the Patriotic Party, This group received support from all strata of Polish-Lithuanian society, from societal and political elites, including some magnates, through Piarist Enlightened Catholics, to the radical left." - the "This group" implies that it starts a new sentence but... it follows a comma. Also, the last bit is convoluted and hard to understand - can we get a bit of rewriting here to make it clearer?
MOS issue - "The Party's centrists, including Stanisław Małachowski, wished accommodation with the King." Generally, this would be "The party's centrists, including Stanisław Małachowski, wished accommodation with the king." as English usage (and the MOS) avoids unnecessary capitalization.
And ... to confuse you further... "While king Poniatowski also supported some reforms.." should be "While King Poniatowski also supported some reforms..." because here we're referring to a specific king, and thus its a proper noun phrase.
"Events in the world appeared to
play into the reformers' hands." That easter egg link is just plain ugly and really doesn't tell us much. Remove the link is my suggestion.
"Poland's neighbors were too occupied with wars to intervene forcibly in Poland, with Russia and Austria engaged in hostilities..." Shouldn't this be "The Commonwealth's neighbors were too occupied with wars to intervene forcibly in the Commonwealth, with Russia and Austria engaged in hostilities..."?
"...the Russians also found themselves fighting Sweden (the Russo-Swedish War)." does this really require FIVE citations?
Just that, wouldn't, but I am quite sure this is the case where each part of the sentence has one ref. There are three different wars mentioned, and the claim about how it affected Poland, most likely - four different refs, at least. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
talk to me23:46, 29 May 2012 (UTC)reply
"At first, Polish king Stanislaw August Poniatowski and some reformers..." As above, should be "At first, Polish King Stanislaw August Poniatowski and some reformers... " and you don't need to link his name again...
"...King Stanisław August drew closer to leaders of the reform-minded Patriotic Party." Again, you've linked the king's name .. the third time in this section. Also, does it really need FIVE cites???
"As Małachowski begun to be seen as associated with the reformers, Sapieha was initially seen as a conservative..." awkward - suggest "As Małachowski was seen as associated with the reformers, Sapieha was initially seen as a conservative..."
Inline external links are depreciated and shouldn't be used. What makes this a reliable source anyway? Rework it to make it a reference or an external link?
Some form of notes is not depreciated; the one used here is the one I learned a while ago. Added the reliable author info to the link to make it more reliable. I would replace it with a more reliable ref; alas, in all my readings and searching this is the only source that listed the number of deputies. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
talk to me23:46, 29 May 2012 (UTC)reply
References:
"CUP Archive" for current ref 4 - we spell out things like Cambridge University Press, since non-historians are not likely to know the "usual abbreviations".
Obviously I can't judge the reliablity of the Polish sources, but other than the Young work, the English works look to be from reliable presses.
I've put the article on hold for seven days to allow folks to address the issues I've brought up. Feel free to contact me on my talk page, or here with any concerns, and let me know one of those places when the issues have been addressed. If I may suggest that you strike out, check mark, or otherwise mark the items I've detailed, that will make it possible for me to see what's been addressed, and you can keep track of what's been done and what still needs to be worked on.
Ealdgyth -
Talk19:23, 28 May 2012 (UTC)reply
I have just modified one external link on
Great Sejm. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
this tool.