This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
The article asserts this is the case, but surely Don Quixote has sold more copies than 36 million? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.178.207.243 ( talk) 01:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Will someone find a photo of this guy on google images or something? Actually, here's the url http://growabrain.typepad.com/growabrain/images/gabriel_garcia_marquez_1.jpg Someone else has to do it please.
First, OK, I find it rather funny how you call him "this guy", haha... He is, after all, a very prominent writer, and of course, also... he is "this guy". And no, you don't just "find" pictures on "google or something", you actually use pictures you have the copywrite or rather permision to publish, not just the old fashioned (I don't want to say "American" since that would sound anti American) way.
While I have left the original reference to Magic Realism in, however this really is becoming a vexed term in the field of lit.crit.
There are 2 distinct origins for the term, one German post-surrealist, the other widely abused as a large catch-all for South American literature. It is the latter which is in debate here; many people see it as problematic on the grounds that it imposes an unecessary and unworkable categorisation.
In an interesting article at http://www.qub.ac.uk/english/imperial/india/Magic.htm , by David Mullan a neat summation of the problem is set out:
However, Anglo-American critics have given the term the definition most commonly associated with it, i.e. it is a mixture of the quotidian and the fantastic, both in terms of content and technique. Yet this is to impose a certain paradigm on non-Anglo-American literatures (especially the Spanish-American since the term is most closely associated with it). Essentially, to describe a work of fiction as "magic realist" is to impose a system of order in much the same way a colonial power imposes its idea of order on a subjugated social system. The problem here is that anything which seems uncanny or unfamiliar to Western eyes becomes "magic", while to a native of that culture the events or ways of thinking so described are "real". For the Anglo-American critic, the term becomes a tool which does little more than 'other' the culture a text describes. Additionally, the binarism of magic/realism sets magic as the lesser term when applied by a humanist thinker.
We really ought to be trying to avoid these cultural and ethnocentric shorthands in Wikipedia... sjc
I guess that's what I get for leaving the academic world for a couple of years. I had no idea this debate was going on. When I was in school, it was common to refer to Marquez as the founder of Magic Realism, which was not limited to the South American authors (for example Toni Morrison, and Kurt Vonnegut were considered part of the genre). I don't know what happened to turn the term into a culturally charged debate, but it is unfortunate.
Your above paragraph implies that Marquez would have actually thought he was describing "real" events when a corpse's blood flows out of the house, down the stairs, across town and up through the murder's door to his room. This is uncommon behavior for blood, and comes from a literalization of the "trail of blood" metaphor. To pretend that this is not an intentional mixture of the quotidian and the fantastic, and that it is the reader who imposes this "colonial and oppressive" order on the text seem to me absurd.
On the other hand, if the term is actually being understood by a majority of academics (not just American academics either) as a derogatory remark, we should certainly acknowledge that and change the article accordingly. Prejudice and real cultural imperialism are social practices which we need to strongly discourage in the wikipedia and in the world at large. -- MRC
Memoria de mis putas tristes was released last year, some one should update this page to reflect that. I'm not really confident in english to update it myself
The article cites Relato de un náufrago as his first major work, but I believe Leaf Storm was published first, and GGM's autobiography depicts it as his first major work in his own eyes. It was also his first published fictional work beyond short stories, and since he's better known as a fiction writer, it might be misleading to use the nonfiction Relato as his "first major work." Can anyone provide a cite for the text in the article? | MrDarcy ¡digame! 17:33, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Hey As far as I know, Garcia Marquez is saluted as a Barranquillero -- he spent much time and wrote several of his works there (I'm not confident enough to list exactly which, but I'm pretty sure Cien Años at least...). Perhaps there should be some mention of this? 140.247.250.253 01:48, 19 March 2006 (UTC)eva
I recently read The Handsomest Drowned Man in the World: A Tale for Children by Marquez, and I must say that I enjoyed it. I think that it was a great way in showing just how real it can be when a myth is started. I actally thought it was rather sad inthe way the myth panned out. One quote I like to phrase is everything is the dark soon comes to the light. and i think it was a sad day when the village people had to find this out in a rather abrupt way...
I have added the ISBN number for this article. K ilo-Lima| (talk) 13:13, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't that be moved to the non-fiction section?
There is a discussion whether he is born in 1928 og 1927. According to one editor on the Norwegian Wikipedia his biography says 1927, so says the spanish newspaper El Pais. Encyclopædia Britannica says 1928, the same is written on his biography on the Nobel Foundation website [1].
It would be good to have this correct as he is 80 tomorrow, is 1927 is correct. Ulflarsen 10:21, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
He himself says in "Living to Tell the Tale" that he made himself a year younger by switching his birthday from 1927 to 1928 to avoid the Columbian draft. Somehow it stuck and in many places his year of birth is still reported, incorrectly to be March 6, 1928. Happy 80th Gabo!!!
Carlos Fuentes was born in Panama to Mexican parents, therefore he should not be included among the South American writers (intro). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Eltri85 ( talk • contribs) 05:34, 6 April 2007 (UTC).
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The dates of the short stories in the bibliography seem to be the publication dates of the English-language collections, not of the original stories. I'm pretty sure, for instance, that Eyes of a Blue Dog was written in 1950, not 1978. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimbluedog ( talk • contribs) 23:30, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
That a writer of such reknown has such a pitiful wiki page is a travesty. I'm going to work on bringing this page up to Good Article status. Please help out by discussing ideas for improvement on this page. Wuapinmon ( talk) 17:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
So, I added a few things, tried to organize it better. Please feel free to do whatever with what I've started.
Wuapinmon (
talk)
00:21, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
I agree that the article could definitely use improvement everywhere, but especially in the lead. I would suggest that the editors might want to look at Chinua Achebe and Harold Pinter for ideas of what topics should be covered, and how. Although the article should rightly focus on the writer and his life, more discussion of his works and their style seems warranted. Willow ( talk) 16:54, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
To assist WikiProject Murder Madness and Mayhem in its drive to bring this article to Featured status, a number of experienced editors from the FA-Team have volunteered their editing services to the project. To see which editors are watching this article, click here.
You can contact a specific editor directly by leaving a message on their talk page, or more generally by posting a message here. To do this, click the '+' tab at the top of the page and enter a subject title, and your message, in the editing windows that will appear. Don't forget to finish off by typing four tildes (~~~~) to automatically add your signature; you need to be logged in for this to work properly.
We're all really enthusiastic about this project, and looking forward to working with you. All the best, The FA-Team 11:15, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
This article still badly needs referenced information, especially from decent, scholarly sources rather than websites. It's not as if this material is hard to find. I'm moving over to this page the "further reading," which should be read and referenced in the article itself:
-- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 23:14, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
As we see from this list, there is hardly a shortage of sources. But none are cited in the article itself! -- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 10:01, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
This article is on the move. Good stuff. Keep it up! -- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 02:10, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Julie, Erin, and I are working away at this and are wondering what the next step is. We would love suggestions re where to improve, what else needs to be added etc. Thanks! Jenbren ( talk) 02:34, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
We are also hoping to get a few more pictures up - maybe of Garcia Marquez as a child, or in his youth... Could somebody please help with this?? Thanks! -- Jgraworth ( talk) 02:43, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Erin- please go through film- add some details and make flow a bit more!!
Jgraworth (
talk)
18:41, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
These were on the page, but I'm not sure about their usefulness. I'm moving them here in case they become of some use...
Otherwise, they can simply be eliminated, I think. -- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 11:11, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Hey! There are several sections such as "Death and Tragedy" are just blank. If there is nothing to put in them then they shouldn't be there! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.131.23.78 ( talk) 04:22, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi team, I started to do a bit of cleanup of the refs but have not finish. I noticed that you are using three time styles for referencing, and if you guys can agree on one then we can fix the rest to match. Here are the three the article is using:
I think either the first or second one is best. Please let me know what you would like to see and I will do another pass through the article and help you standardize. That way you can keep working on content. Karanacs ( talk) 19:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Hello-- Thanks for noting this- lets stick to the second reference option: Author surname, year, p. <pagenumber> We will all try to make the changes too. Jenbren ( talk) 20:18, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Thank you!! Jenbren ( talk) 22:11, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Garcia Marquez was one of the promoters of the Contadora Group.. any info about his involvement??-- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 10:00, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm impressed with how much has been added to this article! Thank you to the editors for their hard work! A couple of comments about the structure of the article first.
Working on these structural issues will allow the editors to better focus their research and writing efforts. Thank you again! Awadewit ( talk) 17:03, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I am placing this GA nomination on hold for seven days. I have identified some concerns with the article meeting GA criteria; if these are fixed within seven days I will pass this article for GA.
1. Prose: a copyedit wouldn't hurt. Some examples (all from the lead): "most well-known" should probably be "best known". A couple of usages don't seem precise to me: "renowned" for his political views? "Renown" is an unequivocally positive term; I think you need something that just indicates he is well-known for his views, not that they have led to a positive image. I'd drop "even" in "even been critical of politics in his native Colombia"; it's not that unusual for radical writers to criticize their own governments.
Please be consistent about the Spanish or English titles: you use "Cien Años de Soledad" but "Love in the Time of Cholera". I personally don't mind which you use, but you should be consistent; I would think it would make the most sense to use the English titles, since that's the name under which most English readers will know these works.
There are some manual of style issues, but none I consider a show-stopper for GA.
Overall the prose is generally clear and accurate, and is good enough for GA generally. None of the above comments have to be fixed for GA.
Here are a couple of specific things that I feel should be fixed for GA:
2. There are some facts I'd just like to see either better referenced, or else confirm that they are drawn from the references as given.
I have no substantive comments under heading 3-6.
Other suggestions, not necessary for GA:
That's it. I am not an expert on this topic, so I can't be sure about breadth of coverage, but it looks pretty good to me. The Nobel prize section is a bit short, but I won't fail GA on that. Overall this looks like good work, though the prose is choppy.
-- Mike Christie (talk) 03:33, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
There are fact tags on these sentences:
Cheers! Wassupwestcoast ( talk) 14:39, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Just going to make a list of what we need to do for our GA review. E and J please sign up for what you want to do and check off when it gets done... hopefully we can get it all done this weekend!!
1) SOLITUDE- I can start this up as I have a good book on it
2) Macondo
3) Latin AMerican Experience
Jenbren ( talk) 17:11, 30 March 2008 (UTC) (better?!)
4) reference 36 million copies
5) check citation needed tags
6) Work on prose---ie make flow!!
Jenbren ( talk) 01:47, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Just quickly to add further congratulations. This article is really flying now! Well done! You guys started late, but have really improved it fantastically. Perhaps we can put it in for Featured Article status not too long after (crossed fingers) is passes GA? It would be grand to have this article, which is viewed by so many, really be excellent. Quite exciting, in fact. -- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 23:36, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
The only remaining obstacle to GA status is the [citation needed] tags. For reference, here they are:
When these are fixed I will pass the article as GA. Mike Christie (talk) 14:57, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
ALL DONE!! Thanks for everyone's help! Jenbren ( talk) 17:19, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
NOW we are all done! thanks arantxa Jenbren ( talk) 17:42, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Guys, many congratulations again! You deserve at least a little rest after your huge efforts. But next step... FA! It would be good to get some new eyes to provide feedback on what needs to be done for that. I'll drop a line (or you could) to the FA-Team.
Meanwhile, I've archived previous discussion, so we have something of a clean slate here. -- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 18:44, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
I've put in a peer review request. Watchlist this page Wikipedia:Peer review/Gabriel García Márquez/archive1. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast ( talk) 02:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Until the peer reviews come through does anyone have suggestions for our next step towards FA?? Thanks!! Jenbren ( talk) 05:48, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
okay thanks! will get right to it! Jenbren ( talk) 06:59, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
A couple of thoughts... Guys, I do think you should get hold of this:
This is the major biography to date. (NB as I understand it, Gerald Martin has been working on an authorized biography for years, but it's not out yet.) I know it's in Spanish. And I also know that you spent three months in Mexico last year, so you should be able to get the gist! If there are specific sections that you think are important, or particular quotations you want translated, you can bring them to me.
I also think you should try to do more with Living to tell the Tale. In general, you probably don't need new sources (though they never hurt) so much perhaps as to do more with the ones you have.
You actually don't have much about his life after 1950. There should be more on this. For instance, how he wrote Cien años on a diet of black coffee and cigarettes in Mexico City... his friendship with Torrijos (as well as with Castro)... and again, his impact (which has, after all, been huge). -- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 10:24, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Just in case the editors haven't watchlisted the peer review page, I left a peer review here. Awadewit ( talk) 23:46, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
I gather from jbmurray that the editors here are interested in an FA nomination. I think it's a very realistic goal, even though the deadline of April 10th is fast approaching.
If you want to have a successful FA nomination in the short time remaining, I'd suggest that the most important issues raised in the peer review are these:
The above three seem the main problems to my eye. Two more that are important but which should be easy are to mention the dates of his major works in passing in the "life" sections, and to fill the gap between 1975 and 1999. If he just lived quietly and wrote in Mexico City that whole time, say so, but the gap should be covered.
Awadewit's other points have real force but are probably less important to go to FAC, though you'll need to think about them. Personally I'm not sure about the Political Views section; I think it works, but others may agree with Awadewit. Expanding the film section would be useful, it's true; and avoiding primary sources in the life section would certainly improve the reliability, but the importance of doing this to some extent depends on the nature of the information you're taking from the source. E.g. a story about GGM as a brilliant scholar should be sourced elsewhere, but his grandparents' names could come from the primary source without too much trouble. The copyediting points should be addressed too, but if you run out of time you could nominate and deal with them in the first day or so of the nomination.
So if you want to get to FA, I think it's very doable. I will complete another copyedit pass tomorrow and see what I can fix from the peer review, but the article is in good shape, and having copyedited this once already I may be blind to its faults. If you decide to go to FAC, I think we can dig up a copyeditor for you.
-- Mike Christie (talk) 04:11, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
There has been some decent progress here over the past week or so, but in the end it looks as though the article will not go forward to FAC, during the lifetime of the Murder, Madness, and Mayhem project at least. It would be nice if this article were to become a Featured Article, however, and perhaps the MMM editors (and/or others) will return to work more on this important figure of twentieth-century world literature. Well done for everything that's been done so far! -- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 11:30, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
There are a lot of articles about Garcia Marquez in other languages specially Spanish, these are valid if properly cited. There is also little criticism to his literary work in this article.
I also suggest creating the Timeline of Gabriel García Márquez, it will be easier to determine his life whereabouts.
Useful links
I am trying to find a pic I have with him.. I'll upload it as soon as I find it.
-- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 16:00, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
How would you format a timeline like this? Are there some examples on wikipedia you can direct us to? Thanks, Arantxa.rap ( talk) 21:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Another theme in GGM is writing. We covered some of this in terms of "writing and power," of course. But people are endlessly writing and/or reading in his books. There are a bunch of essays about this I've seen--one I think on the role of letters in Crónica as well as other texts--but above all I'd recommend you take a look at Roberto Gonzalez Echevarría's Myth and Archive. (Which is, incidentally, one of the best books about Latin American literature as a whole.) PQ7082.N7 G68 1990 in Koerner's. Out at the moment, but seriously overdue. There, there's a whole section about the "archive" in Crónica above all. But see also discussions of Melquiades's book in Cien años. -- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 05:32, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
In this article GGM's birthdate is cited as 1927 AND 1928. I have found several sources claiming it is 1928, including the novel peace prize author bio. I am reluctant to change it because there is a "do not change" warning. The 1927 date cites a BBC article, saying that his 80th birthday celebration was in 2007. So, can someone clear this matter up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Apickens ( talk • contribs) 16:48, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
On the other hand, the back of his book "Leaf Storm and other stories" cites his birthdate as 1928 (Google copy of the page is at http://books.google.com/books?id=reca8VjZwsAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=leaf+storm#PPT1,M1). Personally I would give more sway to his actual book than an internet article written about him. Scipio Carthage ( talk) 14:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
As per the discussion here, I am trying to get better images for both Gabriel García Márquez and Mario Vargas Llosa. I'll post updates on the process here. So this is just to say that I've heard back from my contact; he will be in touch again next week. -- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 07:47, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know if he writes exclusively in Spanish and the translations are part of the process, or is the author actively involved with the translation to English? Love in the Time of Cholera is amazingly vibrant, beautifully written--very visual...and I'll be reading additional titles by this author as a result.
Redjeepchick ( talk) 22:39, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
In the case of "one hundred years of solitude" the translation was published three years after the original Spanish and is accredited to Gregory Rabassa so I assume that he writes first in Spanish and then someone else translates, or at least that was the process for his first novel Alastairthegreat ( talk) 10:52, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I was wondering why the nobel prize wasn't on the info box for gabriel, then i went to add it and i saw this:{{awd|[[Nobel Prize in Literature]]|1982}} <!-- do not add nobel image see [[:Template:Infobox writer]] -->
can anyone explain this to me?
I note a book in the section called "friendship is beautiful". I did a Yahoo search on this and got 3 results. This page. Answers.com page and a page from "bookclubforum.co.uk" about a books a person read in the year (it was Wilbur?). I have added a citation needed for this. Phil Nolte ( talk) 12:38, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Following up on the above, I've found three non-fiction books -- "The Novel in Latin America: Dialogue", "When I Was Happy and Undocumented", and "The Abduction" -- that have not yet been translated from Spanish. I feel its misleading to leave them on his bibliography as this version of Wiki specifically caters to English speakers, and so I removed them. In any event, his full Spanish and English bibliographies can be found on the Nobel Prize website: http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/1982/marquez-bibl.html
I just wanted to congratulate everyone who worked on this lovely article! fetch comms ☛ 22:18, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
I've removed the "Chain mail hoax" section at the bottom of this article. It is a non-notable event that is only marginally relevant to this article. The idea that internet spam should merit a section on an article of one of Latin America's (and the World's) most influential writers strikes me as bizarre. Also take note that one of the "citations" regarding that "event" is from a blog and another one from fastbytes.com who's quality reminds me of the old geocities pages. We need to be more vigilant about these kinds of things and remove factoid/blog material as soon as it comes up in order to maintain the quality of this and other important articles.-- Jersey Devil ( talk) 09:00, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Can anybody tell me if there is any possibility that Gabo will add to or indeed finish the second and third volumes of his autobiography. Having marvelled at the first part I would love to think that I have more to read —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.152.164.8 ( talk) 14:51, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
I am not sure how notable the following works are, but they are present on the spanish version of the article, and not the English:
La siesta del martes
Un dia de estos
La Viuda de Montiel
__________ Baltazar (the prequel of la viuda de montiel)
173.70.194.24 (
talk)
20:33, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Actually, they are published in two collection of short stories which are not mentioned either:
- Eyes of a blue dog and other stories - The funeral of the great mother and other stories —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.87.19.214 ( talk) 00:10, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
His name, according to Colombian pronunciation, is said in seseo not ceceo. Ceceo is phenomenon found in a few dialects of southern Spain in which the historical phonemes /s/ and /θ/ are both realized as [θ]. Although a minority pronunciation in Spain, virtually all speakers in Hispanic America are seseantes, and seseo is considered standard in all varieties of Latin American Spanish. Seseo is the merger in the opposite direction: the original phonemes /s/ and /θ/ are both pronounced as [s]. There's always a lot of confusion over this, usually who have learned Spanish in Europe, where ceceo is often taught. This form of Spanish, or Castellano, is very limited to certain parts of Spain. No Spanish speaking person pronounces their name like that unless they were born and/or were raised/lived in those areas of Spain. Please do not simply change the pronunciation because you were taught that way and feel it is the more or only correct version of the language, if you do some simple research you will understand the difference. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.55.164.247 ( talk) 00:42, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
The distinction between /s/ and /θ/ is not "ceceo", "ceceo" is pronouncing both as /θ/ (just like "seseo" is pronouncing both as /s/). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.9.228.141 ( talk) 16:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
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the word "remaining," in the sentence about Garcia Marquez being the earliest surviving Nobel resipiate is redundant, is redundant. i don't know how to remove it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.63.222 ( talk) 05:41, 21 November 2013 (UTC)