GA nomination failed when not all concerns were addressed in time
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I've made the suggested changes to the lead - not sure about the paragraph I added, but I think it does a decent job. Also, should the derivatives of fuck, and other words in general, not be italicized throughout the entire article? I wasn't aware that was the proper style - but good to know. (sorry if I'm stepping on your toes here with the review, if you'd like me to hold off on making edits until you've completely finished, just lmk)
Elliot321 (
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06:22, 4 January 2021 (UTC)reply
No worries. Those instances shouldn't be italicized either unless they're titles of major works like books, movies, TV shows, albums, video games, magazines, or newspapers. The lead also looks better now. Same goes for the general word "fuck" itself. I'll go into further detail on subsequent text once I have a chance to assess it.
SNUGGUMS (
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14:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Offensiveness
"The word is considered obscene but is commonly used in many informal and familiar situations." is unsourced and doesn't add much anyway, so I'd scrap it
See my previous comments on not italicizing "fuck" or any derivatives. Same goes for "cunt", "users", and "usage".
Having super short paragraphs is frowned upon because it makes the text look choppy. With that in mind, perhaps you could merge the last one with other text in this section.
Looking through that page, my understanding is that it doesn't so much apply to article titles as it does for translating terms within article text (e.g. "Deuce means 'two'.") I may have misinterpreted something but this is my best guess. With that in mind, we can keep italics for the non-English terms like "ficken" and "focks" while removing them from "fuck" and the article title.
SNUGGUMS (
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22:17, 8 January 2021 (UTC)reply
I don't see the quoted examples in
what was provided (you appear to have substituted it with other terms used), and am not sure Salon is the best source to use anyway.
The quote "They are not in heaven, because they fuck the women of Ely" is nowhere to be found
here, and neither is its pre-translated version
Looking at this one, it looks like the source was "Revising the F-Word". I removed the other source and made it clear that this one is the source. However, I can't easily track this down so I can't actually verify the content.
Elliot321 (
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05:07, 8 February 2021 (UTC)reply
You'll need a separate citation for "The stem of fuccant is an English word used as Latin: English medieval Latin has many examples of writers using English words when they did not know the Latin word: 'workmannus' is an example."
Merged. The issue with sourcing on that Oxford statement is actually somewhat significant - I've marked it as failed verification: "the source and archive link are different. the source seems to imply "fuck" was added in 2008, with no mention of "cunt". the archive link is to a paywalled page, and useless, but implies the content behind the paywall, which we do not have a current link to access, may have been accurate" I'm going to look into this more and try to find an alternative source - otherwise, I'll change the mention to remove "cunt" and say it was listed in 2008 - which is what the source currently claims.
Elliot321 (
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15:57, 8 February 2021 (UTC)reply
After a significant amount of research, I've found no RS that can actually back this up - and the linked source didn't even agree with the claim, and the entire thing seemed to be bordering on
WP:SYNTH, so I removed the paragraph altogether.
Elliot321 (
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19:19, 9 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Modern usage
The entire second paragraph is missing citations, and the sentence "Most literally, to fuck is to have sex, but it is also used as a more general expletive or intensifier." also needs to be referenced.
Not sure abbreviations should have italics. Either way, spell them out.
Except for its first two sentences, most of the third paragraph is unsourced
Removed the list of comedians (what, are we supposed to include a list of every comedian who uses the word?) and added more info + a ref for Carlin. Still need a ref for the two preceding sentences (about WTF, STFU, MF etc).
Elliot321 (
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21:21, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
@
SNUGGUMS: I'll be working on these fixes over the next few days. Sorry about the lack of response, I have been kinda busy, but I am still working on this - and I appreciate your continued patience.
Elliot321 (
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15:41, 3 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Sounds good. I myself have also admittedly been occupied with other things both outside of Wikipedia and on it, though haven't by any means forgotten about this review. More to come within 48 hours.
SNUGGUMS (
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16:31, 3 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Examples of more recent usage
When the first two paragraphs are so short, they may as well be merged to form a larger one.
This mentions "fuck" and "fucking", but doesn't discuss the use of "fucked"
Perhaps you could link to
EMI and Grundy incident somewhere within the "Controversy ensued in 1976 when Today host Bill Grundy interviewed the Sex Pistols, after guitarist Steve Jones called Grundy a 'dirty fucker' and a 'fucking rotter'" sentence.
Is the "Fuck is not widely used in politics, and the use of the word by politicians often produces controversy. Some events include:" part really needed?
Not sure these should be presented in list form.
"(1965–67)" should be "(1965–1967)" when four digits are preferred for years as more complete and professional
No mention of George Thomas
here (at least from what I could find)
This might sound like splitting hairs, but Cheney is only quoted as saying
"Fuck yourself"; no instance of "Go fuck yourself" was mentioned
"The exchange referred to the newly appointed CEO of the recently opened Cross City Tunnel toll road within Sydney." should be moved to come in between the previous sentence and
its accompanying citation
I don't see how John McCain's temper is really relevant here
Don't WP:EASTEREGG "a fellow MP", and just mention Jonathan Coleman by name
"He apologized shortly afterwards." seems trivial
You forgot both instances of "uh" from the
"fucking golden" bit, and I see nothing that pertains to Valerie Jarrett or selling a Senate seat appointment
"He’s unable to provide" from "He’s unable to provide a coherent answer" should be "He's unable to provide" per MOS:CURLY
"When I read the EU condemnation" isn't included
here
This has me somewhat worried about the article's quality. Nevertheless, I'll continue with "Use in marketing" and the rest of the content sooner or later.
SNUGGUMS (
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23:21, 7 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Use in marketing
"French Connection produced a range of T-shirts with messages such as 'fcuk this', 'hot as fcuk', 'mile high fcuk', 'fcuk me', etc." is missing a reference
Given how brief the first two paragraphs are, I'd say merge them to avoid choppy flow. Maybe even make all three of this subsection read as one larger paragraph.
Sorry to nitpick, but
"light-coloured" is used, not "light in colour".
The next three subsections ("Band names", "Holy fuck", and "F-bomb") will probably be assessed in one go whenever I review them given how brief they are.
SNUGGUMS (
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23:23, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
"Usually vulgar" seems like an incomplete sentence.
Are you not able to expand on the use of this phrase?
@
SNUGGUMS: Worse - after tracking down the original source, it actually doesn't mention "holy fuck" at all, nor can I find good other sources for it. I've removed the section, since it's probably undue (not really covered in the context of the word fuck, after all). Wondering what to do about
Holy fuck now - the use in the phrase is obviously still the primary topic. I think maybe rephrasing the dabpage would be sufficient (and adding the {{redirect}} to the top of
Fuck). Thoughts?
Elliot321 (
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03:40, 24 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I've moved the page that was at
Holy fuck (disambiguation) back to
Holy fuck - I think that makes more sense in this case (I noticed the old RM, but I really struggle seeing how the interjection is the primary topic given just how little RS coverage is has - the disambiguation page makes more sense).
Elliot321 (
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01:05, 25 February 2021 (UTC)reply
There's more for you. Looking back into earlier text, the use of "most notably" for Carlin's 7 dirty words is inappropriate WP:POV and WP:EDITORIALIZING.
SNUGGUMS (
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23:08, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Thanks for your very in-depth review so-far and your patience as I try to get everything in compliance. So far, I've addressed every concern except for the "use in politics" section, which I'll get to over the next few days, hopefully.
Elliot321 (
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03:43, 24 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Censorship
Only listing The Big Lebowski for TV censorship isn't much, and only counts for editing it out of films. You should add music examples (perhaps for radio as well).
The paragraphs here seem kind of short. Are you sure both are enough to stand on their own? I might change my mind after seeing an expansion.
Don't link to sections of this article as you've done with "F-bomb"
The TV examples need to be referenced. I'll allow citing specific episodes per
Template:Cite episode if that's the best you can use (perhaps with accompanying quotes).
Done and removed. This stuff, on consideration, was cruft that probably shouldn't stay around. Open encyclopedias, what a joy. (I've also added another ref for the usage of fsck)
Elli (
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07:23, 7 March 2021 (UTC)reply
See also
This seems rather cluttered. I'd try to limit the listings to terms that specifically involve the word "fuck".
Don't use italics for Dictionary.com, YouTube, ABC News, Fox News (which shouldn't read as "foxnews.com"), Reuters, or BBC News
Names of publications like newspapers and websites shouldn't be used in the same field as article titles (e.g. ref's 71, 72, and 73 make this mistake). Put those in other parameters within the references.
My pleasure. Even when it takes longer to get through, I do like to be thorough when reviewing GA nominations as that overall helps improve the article more.
SNUGGUMS (
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01:48, 3 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Hey snuggums, I'm really sorry to be asking this, but this ended up lining up kinda poorly with my midterm exams, so I might not be able to finish all the improvements by the 10th. I'd very much appreciate if you could give me a few days of flexibility (sorry).
Elli (
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19:05, 8 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Try to get as much done as you can beforehand. My main concerns right now are the improperly attributed text within the politics section and censorship needing expansion. I might make some adjustments (nothing too big) to speed things up depending on what you can accomplish, but we'll see what happens. Extensions aren't feasible either way when (by my own admission) I already took quite a long time to even finish reviewing the text. That would just be dragging it on even further.
SNUGGUMS (
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19:43, 8 March 2021 (UTC)reply
On another note,
Elli, one advantage of this review concluding within the next couple of days (whether it passes or fails) is that you'll have more time to focus on your exams and preparing for them. I'd hate for this to interfere with your academic performance.
SNUGGUMS (
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19:48, 8 March 2021 (UTC)reply
SNUGGUMS makes sense, and I don't blame ya, just letting you know of the situation. The politics section should be decent easy to cleanup (already done some, but I'm doing more - trying to remove excessive instances, as well as poorly-sourced ones, and improving the sourcing) and censorship a bit harder - but I think it can be done. I'm working on exams today so I'll probably do the rest of the stuff tomorrow.
Elli (
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19:57, 8 March 2021 (UTC)reply
You're welcome. The politics and censorship sections do still need work, and it's probably best I don't fix those myself as that could make me too involved with changing the article. Get done what you can.
SNUGGUMS (
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14:01, 9 March 2021 (UTC)reply
My apologies, but when the required changes unfortunately haven't been made soon enough, I'm failing the nomination. Feel free to renominate at GAN once you've expanded on censorship and properly attributed all content pertaining to politics.
SNUGGUMS (
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02:54, 10 March 2021 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.